“Will they still like me?” - the dreaded question that’s held many inspiring entrepreneurs back. On today’s episode, my guest, Nkiru Asika, and I break down why what you have to offer is so much more important than the fear of being judged. BONUS - a surprise guest adds to the ambiance of the show. Listen now for Easter eggs and of course, rants.
Putting yourself out there is one of the scariest parts about becoming an entrepreneur. Especially when your business is built around you. This fear is no stranger to me...or to Nkiru. In this episode we sift through the head trash that kept us in the shadows and we’re throwing it all in the dumpster so you don’t have to.
Note: in this episode we talk about things from the perspective of being women in business. Regardless of how you feel about the societal buzzword/shitstorm surrounding the concept of “feminism”, I think these topics impact us all. So I challenge you to listen with an open mind - do that and you’re going to get some gold nuggets.
Can’t-Miss Moments From This Episode:
This one is jam-packed full of advice. Don’t miss out - listen now!
Nkiru Asika is a marketing strategist, speaker and coach with a background as an award-winning journalist, social enterprise founder and TV producer. Under the brand Women Building Authority, she runs an online platform, membership site, training and live events that empower female entrepreneurs to communicate the transformational value of their work, grow their authority and build a profitable business around their expertise. In addition, she provides online marketing services for private clients and serves as Commissioning Editor (North America & Africa) for Rethink Press, one of the UK's top hybrid business publishers.
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Angie Colee (00:02):
Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass. A podcast about leaving self-doubt in the dust, punching fear in the face and taking bold action toward your biggest dreams. I'm Angie Colee, and let's get to it. Hi and welcome back to Permission to Kick Ass. With me today is my friend Nkiru Asika. Say hi, Nkiru.
Nkiru Asika (00:23):
Angie Colee (00:27):
I should know better than to do that intro because everybody does that too. And says hi to their own name, but it's it tickles me. I love dad jokes and dad humor. So it's fantastic. I'm so glad to have you on the show. Cause I know we first met back when you were coaching with me a couple of years ago. Um, and oh God, I remember you coming to the calls. You were always such a bright light in all of those. Asked such great questions and I really love what you're working on because you're getting ready to launch something new. And I know before the call, we were talking a little bit about kind of the head trash and the nerves that come with putting something out there that's brand new, especially when it's attached to a mission that's very important to you. Do you want to speak a little bit more to that?
Nkiru Asika (01:12):
Yeah. Well, first of all, just want to say I'm so excited to be here. Uh, either I remember back then, uh, when coaching with you in Copy Chief. Shout out Copy Chief. Shout out RFL. Um, and you talked about Permission to Kick Ass and I'm like, oh my God. And now here it is. And it's a podcast that I'm on the show
Angie Colee (01:35):
It came to reality finally, after years of talking about it.
Nkiru Asika (01:38):
Yeah. I'm super excited to be here and every time I hear the word head trash, I think of Angie Colee because I just see that as yours
Angie Colee (01:46):
We're going to kick head trash to the curb. That is my mission.
Nkiru Asika (01:50):
Dumping our head trash. Yeah. So I dunno, I think it's something we all struggle with, but I think that women struggle with more than more than men. I mean, you know, that saying that, um, all every woman needs is the confidence of an average white man. And you know, it's just so it's just so true. I mean, I'm, I'm focused on everything I'm doing now is focused on like helping women build that brand authority essentially. So, um, I target women, coaches, consultants, anyone who is selling like their advice or their knowledge or their expertise, because then you like, you know, you basically personify your brand, right? It's not like selling widgets, it's you putting yourself out there and it's just that much harder and that much scarier. And, but also it's so important, you know, um, I'm passionate about it because part of the reason why that is that woeful shameful gap in wages. Gap in terms of, you know, venture capital to women owned firms. Um, gap in terms of, you know, corporate leadership under representation, everywhere is yes, there is the sexism, there's the, you know, institutional racism there's all those things, but also as women, we also don't stand up step up the same way.
Nkiru Asika (03:16):
And we just have to become like honest about that. We just, we still have that thing of thinking our work is going to speak for us, you know, or, you know, if, if, if we're just really talented people will, will notice us. No, one's going to notice me. Like you gotta, you have to, and you have to put yourself out there. Right?
Angie Colee (03:35):
It's interesting too, because like I have a corporate backgrounds and I remember that like a very passionate idea person and I would pitch something and usually get shot down because it was too bold. It was too crazy. It was too off-brand it was too risky. But then a man, usually a young white man would pitch something very similar within a week or two of me sharing my idea and it was brilliant and innovative and forward thinking and just the kind of breath of fresh air that we need around here. Guys, we have a fucking problem here. This is not good. But then like stepping up and taking credit for an idea that was clearly yours is an additional challenge. Like why do I have to fight to prove that this idea that I shared is the same idea that this person shared? I don't understand.
Nkiru Asika (04:24):
Exactly. Exactly. You know, that, I think that, I think so, so many women, um, you know, would have experienced that in, in, in, at work. That's why it's even more kind of like tragic when you're now running your own business. And then you put yourself in the same prison.
Angie Colee (04:38):
Nkiru Asika (04:39):
You know, it's like, you look online and then it's like, you know, there's all these people claiming to be gurus and this and that. And you know, everybody just looks like they have everything together. And then you just think, "oh God, I have nothing to say. I have nothing to add. So I'll just, okay."
Angie Colee (04:57):
You and I are going to dismantle this. We're going to destroy this idea of like, everybody has to have their shit together to get things done. Uh, I think that's exactly why this podcast exists because to me it was eye opening. The first time I met another entrepreneur that was like, "oh my God, I'm so overwhelmed. I don't know what to do. I'm stuck in fear. Like, I don't know if I could do this." And it was like, "oh my God, you too? I'm not actually alone" So I wanted to bring that out there to the world. Cause especially, especially with the newer entrepreneurs and the people that are really just taking this bet on themselves for the first time they do exactly like you said. Exactly. Like you said, they look at all these other people around them and go, "oh shit, that person has it all together. How do I even compare to that?" Um, spoiler alert, you're comparing your internal shit-show to their polished front stage.
Nkiru Asika (05:55):
Exactly. Exactly. As they say, don't compare your, your beginning to somebody else's middle.
Angie Colee (06:01):
Nkiru Asika (06:02):
You know, but it's, but it's, I mean, I'm saying it like, like I've got it all sorted out, but I do the same thing. I have to just keep reminding myself because that's what I'm trying to tell other people. Right?
Angie Colee (06:13):
I think that was the funny part of me coaching, um, in the programs that we were in together with RFL, because a lot of the students that I've coached through their resonate with me because they think that I'm this confident, like ass kicker and I know everything and blah, blah, blah. And so many of them are shocked to find out that I deal with so much anxiety. And I'm like, no, like everything that I am teaching you is from deep personal experience. And the agony of punching myself in the face and believing that I'm not good enough to do this. Um, and just trying to find tricks to, to overcome that, or at least get me to the very next step where I'd start the cycle over again and just focused on getting to the next step.
Nkiru Asika (06:54):
Right, right. Right.
Angie Colee (06:56):
Well, so tell us about this thing that you're launching. Cause I'm, I'm excited about that. Okay.
Nkiru Asika (07:00):
Okay. Well, um, so essentially during the pandemic, um, last year I started coaching a few women on building their brand authority essentially. So I was taking people through sort of like one-on-one, I was kind of like creating the program as we went along, but it was, it was sort of great. It was focused really coming from the angle of, um, sort of clarity around who you are, who you serve, your message, creating some kind of signature framework, packaging, your expertise, you know, and then, you know, applying online tools to amplify. So I really sort of enjoyed that, but I also realized from coaching these few people that I did not want to be a, but like, yeah, I just didn't want to be a coach.
Angie Colee (07:49):
Yeah. I totally get it. It's not for everyone.
Nkiru Asika (07:52):
Yeah. It's like, it just, I mean, I'm very much an introvert and after it would just kind of like take a lot out, you know, I was like this, okay. This is really tiring.
Angie Colee (08:02):
It really does take a lot of energy out. So first of all, if you're considering being a coach, it is a very big energy expenditure. Especially if you consider yourself to be empathetic, you can really like, because I feel like I feel a lot of the pain and the anxiety that my students are going through. And so I feel it probably pretty closely to what they feel, I think. And it takes a lot of energy out of me. Second of all, I'm going to go this rant, here we go. My little mini rants about coaches is that there are too many damn people out there who think that they can tell you what to do. If you have a coach who comes to you and says, "this is what you need to do to solve your problem. Nope. I don't care if your instincts are saying, no, I don't care if it doesn't feel right, you just need to do this thing. Trust me, right?" No, I don't agree with coaches like that. The best coaches, I think are the ones that train you to rely on yourself and trust your own instincts. And they ultimately want you to not work with them anymore because you're so comfortable trusting in yourself. Okay. So that's it. Rant's over.
Nkiru Asika (09:03):
A hundred high, five double high five. I feel you. I mean, that's all that kind of like, yes, it's my way do this. You must do this, do it this way, this method, but no, no, no, no, no, no
Angie Colee (09:16):
Like there are simple tactics and strategies that work for a lot of people, but they still don't take into account all of the hundreds of little factors that impact somebody's life on a personal individual level. So yes, recommend strategies that have worked for you and give, if you're a coach, give your students the freedom to experiment with the system or reject your idea and try something else that feels good to them. But the point is get them to take action. Don't get them to follow your system.
Nkiru Asika (09:44):
Yeah, I love that. I love that. That's that's I a hundred percent concur, especially when someone is new, you know, I remember being, you know, coming into this whole sort of online thing newbie. And it's so intimidating. Like if, if you're not, if you've never like been in this world, I mean, literally I thought copywriting was like, I'm really one of those people who probably thought it was like, somethings to do with patterns. I mean, I didn't know anything about, yeah, literally. I didn't know anything about online marketing, direct response, nothing. So it's, it's very, it's very easy to be intimidated, you know? So if somebody just sort of says to you, "This is the way this is the thing, blah, blah." You know, you start thinking, okay, I've got to do that. There's got to be this way. It's got to be that way. And then if you can't, if it's not sitting with you or it's you see, you think it's you that's wrong.
Angie Colee (10:37):
Well, and then the flip side of that coin, I think is that, you know, like I said, it, it teaches people to rely on the coach, but it also, I dunno, it limits your thinking in a way, because you're focused on what are the right steps in the right order. And if I copy these exact steps in this exact order, I should theoretically get to success.
Nkiru Asika (10:57):
Get the same results. Even though I'm a completely different person in a totally different circumstance.
Angie Colee (11:03):
Like following the prescribed steps is exactly how I wound up a divorcee at 24. Like, because you know, you date someone and you get engaged and you get, you move in together and you buy a house and all of this step, like you follow all the steps and get married and happiness. Shit - this isn't working the way I thought it was supposed to like, no, you don't follow the prescribed steps. Like the whole point is to take a step that feels good. Figure out what's working and what's not working. Think about what you want to do next. And then just keep going. Like, it's not, I was sorry, this is like fresh on my mind because I was at a marketing conference this weekend. And there were so many people that were getting bogged down in details. Like where do you write Google docs? Next question. But why Google docs? Because it automatically saves anything in case my computer crashes, next thing. But what about the design? Put it in fucking Canva. You're getting too hung up on the, like the tiny little steps that don't and you're giving no thought to the overall thing. Like if you're getting stopped at where do I write the, just pick a thing and write is the answer. How do I design this? Just pick a thing and design.
Nkiru Asika (12:14):
But that's, but that's also a form. That's also a form of hiding, right? That that's, I mean, you know, Hey, I've done that, you know, instead of getting ready for my, okay, so it's just to go back. So I realize I didn't actually expand on what else could I be doing? So like, I'll say it's coaching women building a brand authority. So this is the whole sort of brand that I'm building. Now it's called Women Building Authority. That's the name of my Facebook group. I'm launching a membership. I've done a summit. I'll do other events. I'm involving Angie in a secret way that no one knows yet.
Angie Colee (12:48):
Ooo, she just called me out.
Nkiru Asika (12:52):
Um, yeah. So it's, it's, it's, it's essentially membership services. I've started an agency, um, that will be focused on supporting these women because really, again, it's, it's coaching, it's strategy, it's implementation. So it's not, you you've got to actually, you need help actually getting this stuff done too. So yeah, I, my, my big sort of why, like I was saying before, it's just really supporting, um, women to be able to stand out, to be able to be that sort of voice, bold voice in the industry, not just to be a voice, but so they could make more money and have more impact. And we won't have all this, you know, women earning less from doing the same job and no woman in leadership and
Angie Colee (13:44):
Women dropping out of the workforce.
Nkiru Asika (13:46):
Women dropping out of the workforce. Every single job in December in the U S was lost by a woman. I mean, that just blew my mind.
Angie Colee (13:53):
Like it's, it's insane how much pressure we put on ourselves as women to like, have all of the balls in the air constantly. And if something falls down, that means we're a failure. No, if something falls down, it means we're human. Uh, one of my, my favorite things to say is like a failure is an event. It's not your identity. It happens to every single human being on the face of the earth. Welcome to being human.
Nkiru Asika (14:21):
Yeah. And it's also necessary because if you haven't failed, that means you probably haven't done anything. Like you couldn't have stretched yourself in any way, if you've never failed
Angie Colee (14:32):
That is such a brilliant way to put it. Like, if, if you haven't failed, are you even really trying?
Nkiru Asika (14:38):
Angie Colee (14:40):
So smart. Um, so I want, I wrote back this note and I want to go back to something you were saying earlier about where a lot of women struggle, which is being the brand, and you know, essentially like the thing that's for sale. And that really spoke to me on a deep level, because I feel a lot of these same pressures that we've been talking about, especially in launching the podcast. I remember I talked about it and then I had the breakup and that kind of pushed things back by a couple months. I would, I had planned to launch it in October of 2020. That didn't happen. Uh, in January of 2021, my friend, Chris, who was an earlier guest on the, on the podcast was like, so "When are you gonna launch this thing?" I was like, "ah, I don't know. I probably should set a date", but like just waffling.
Angie Colee (15:24):
And finally he was like, "Angie gun to the head, when is the date?" And so I finally picked a date, which was March 8th, which is my mom's birthday. Um, and I, I did, I did the things that an entrepreneur who really wants to succeed should do. I reached out for help. I didn't try to do this alone in a vacuum. Like I even got a friend who had launched a podcast. She shared her strategic plan with me and like all the things that she checked off before the podcast launch, I was so terrified of putting this thing out there. Are they going to like it? Am I working so hard to do this thing that really speaks to my soul? And then it's going to land with a thud and everybody's going to hate me and be like, this is a really stupid idea. So I dragged my feet on actually doing all of the things and checking the things off the list and getting ready for the launch until like two weeks before. And then suddenly it's panic mode like, "oh shit, it's launch time. And I don't have any of these things done. How am I going to get it done? I need to push the launch date." And I go back to Chris and I'm like, "I think I'm going to push the launch date by a couple of weeks, just so I give myself to get, give myself enough time to get these things done." And he goes "Uh, fuck no." And in that case I was, you know, in retrospect, of course everything is hindsight. I'm really kind of glad that I had friends that were holding my feet to the fire and that I said, this thing that I was trying to do out loud, um.
Nkiru Asika (16:45):
Very key saying it out loud.
Angie Colee (16:47):
I don't know. And I remember that one of when they challenged me, he and a group of my friends challenged me on why I wanted to push it. I said, "I don't know how comfortable I am being the thing for sale." And I remember using those specific words, like I have spent so much of my career.
Nkiru Asika (17:04):
That's interesting that you would phrase it that way. "The thing for sale."
Angie Colee (17:07):
'Cause I've spent so much of my life, like my, my expertise in my career being the behind scenes person that makes somebody else successful. And I haven't had a problem with that. And so, you know, last year I got the bug to what if Angie was the one saying the smart things instead of writing the smart things for other people, but yeah. The thing for sale, what about that is, is getting to you?
Nkiru Asika (17:32):
Well, I think it's interesting that you'd phrase it as, uh, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm afraid to put myself out there as the thing for sale. Cause it's, it's not about you being the thing for sale. It's, you're the person who's there to help. It's not, you know, so it's not, it's not, what if I was the thing for sale. It's what if I was the person who could help people? What if I was the person who could give people those answers, which is less sort of, you know, scary or less.
Angie Colee (18:04):
Nkiru Asika (18:05):
You know, there's something about being the thing for sale that could kind of stop you in your tracks, but then
Angie Colee (18:13):
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's actually it because you know, now that I think about it in that language that I was using, that attaches me to their decision. That means if they say no, they're rejecting me personally, if I stay attached to this idea that they're buying me.
Nkiru Asika (18:29):
Angie Colee (18:31):
So, oh, I'm so glad that we kind of stumbled on this. Cause I don't think I had even really fully unpacked that thought process for myself. It was just for me in the end, it became about being a person of my word. Like my personal integrity was on the line. If I told these people I'm launching on this date and I don't launch on this date then I feel like a failure and I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to let my friends down. So I, one of my tactics to kind of short circuit, the self-sabotage is to involve other people in my planning and make, not make, ask them to hold my feet to the fire as it were so that I get things done.
Nkiru Asika (19:07):
That's what coaching is, isn't it?
Angie Colee (19:09):
Yeah. That's, you know, that's true. You're making me think about these things in a totally new way. That's- Well, I want to dig a little bit deeper into this though, because this is fascinating to me. Um, and, and with women that struggle. Okay. So we've talked about being the thing for sale. Uh, what else would they struggle with with being like the face and the voice of the brands?
Nkiru Asika (19:32):
Yeah. I think being the face and the voice of the brand and I mean, it seems, so it seems so ridiculous now, but I remember this just last year. Okay. Like I am not a social media person, like at all. Um, I, now obviously I'm using it a lot more and I will, I'm gonna like skyrocket my, my like presence, but ,I was not even, I was really not even on Facebook. So when I joined Facebook, like rejoined, one of my cousins, no joke actually was about to get in touch with Facebook to say my identity must've been hacked because I'm not on social media. It couldn't possibly be me. Right. Because I don't, I don't use social media, you know, but I decided to do a summit February last year. And, um, I started planning it maybe from about December the, no, from about October the year before.
Nkiru Asika (20:38):
Um, and I, I moved, I moved the date once it was supposed to be end of January and I did move it to end of February. But I, as the closer we got the more I started thinking, "oh, why the hell did I, why did I do this?" And with a summit, you can't back out. It was a prerecorded summit. I had, I had, I had prerecorded interviews with 28 people. I couldn't tell them "you know what guys, I can't really do this anymore." The summit had to go ahead, you know? Um, but that, that, that sort of, I just suddenly had that crisis of like, "oh my God, what if people just think this is the most stupid thing ever? Like, why did I, do you know, why did I do this?" If I hadn't had those interviews, if I didn't have to be committed to those people, I would, I might've shelved the whole thing. So it's the fact that I, I mean, I had interviewed them. I had, I told them they were going to be on a summit. They had to be on a summit. So I had to deliver that summit. But if it was like, like I've wanted to start a podcast. And one, I think one of the reasons it's been easy for me to delay that is because you have to kind of, it's not like a summit where you've prerecorded and then you come here, you can, you can, you can kind of delay a podcast,
Angie Colee (21:55):
And then it's a lot of work. Like I didn't, I understand now why I think there's a stat out there somewhere that says, you know, most podcasts don't go beyond, I think it's like seven or 10 episodes. Um, and that's because it's a lot of fucking work. To make a show sound good, look good. Do all the show up in all the feeds. It's a lot of upfront work. And once you get past that first 10 episodes, I would say you fall into a rhythm, gets a lot easier to release an episode a week or, you know, whatever your production schedule is. But yeah, just to get over that first hurdle of like get the first 10 episodes out was an enormous task that I'm so glad I did because I have fun with this. Like it's turned into a big joke with some of my, uh, my friends because they know Wednesday is podcast recording day for me. And I will do a max of three episodes a day on Wednesdays. Wednesdays are my happy days.
Nkiru Asika (22:49):
Oh, that's awesome.
Angie Colee (22:50):
Because we get to show up and talk to my friends and we get geek out over this stuff and we get to share war stories and like, and talk about how to move beyond it and how to find success despite all of the terror and feelings that come up in the process of doing this. The end of Wednesdays, I'm just like over the moon. I want to release every episode like yesterday. It's very, very hard for me not to just drop hundreds of hours worth of recordings on you guys right now.
Nkiru Asika (23:25):
That's great though. I mean, it's like, you've found your like groove, you know,
Angie Colee (23:30):
But that's why I think the work that you're doing is so important because if I hadn't had people encouraging me to do this, holding me accountable, I wouldn't have discovered how much I love it. You know, like the fear would have won out and this show wouldn't exist. And God, you know, if this, if this show impacts one single solitary life out there and somebody decides to start a business and just, you know, "fuck it, we're going to have fun with it. I'm going to screw things up along the way, but I'm just going to try this thing cause it's calling to me." Then my mission is complete. Like I only want that one person out there. I don't care if I'm ever My Favorite, My Favorite Murder famous. Although that would be nice, uh, Georgia and Karen call me. Oh, this, this is.
Nkiru Asika (24:23):
I think you just had a dog back there, but anyway.
Angie Colee (24:26):
I kind of heard the barking. It makes a nice ambiance to the show though. There's another episode that I recorded where somebody literally knocked on the door and the recording. And then I think in the editing process, my editor and I think they missed it. My, there was somewhere weird way like it couldn't be cut out. And so now it's just an Easter egg. One of the podcast episodes you'll have to go find it has a "Hold on. Someone's at the door." Hold, please. Um, but that's the beauty of this. Like I think like the reason that I wanted to keep that in the episode after we discovered it was just to show that in the process of doing things, mess ups happen, mistakes happen, unexpected things that you didn't plan for happen and you just keep going
Nkiru Asika (25:14):
And it makes it, I mean, it makes it, uh, interesting. Absolutely. It keeps it interesting. You know,
Angie Colee (25:20):
I know we're recording this in May and this thing that you're creating that you love so much and the mission that I'm totally behind is coming out in July, correct?
Nkiru Asika (25:31):
Yes. The, the, the membership is going to launch in July. Um, um, yeah, it, it will launch mid-July and essentially it's, it's just going to be a phenomenal, I don't want to go down and sort of plug,.
Angie Colee (25:49):
Oh no, it's fine.
Nkiru Asika (25:51):
Plug fest. But yeah, I mean, it, it is a community of women who are, you know, with big visions and big hearts who trying to make a difference and they want to get, they want to get seen. They want to get heard. They want to get paid. That was like the tagline of the, of the summit I did in March. Right. Um, and I'm just there to support. And in every way, you know, I'm bringing in experts on different topics who can, you know, experts such as Angie Colee!
Angie Colee (26:27):
Now it's a Plug Fest.
Nkiru Asika (26:27):
I know. Who supported different in different ways, but essentially with taking people through what, what I, what I call sort of the five pillars of building your, your authority. So being, being memorable, being credible, being visible, which will help you be profitable and then scalable.
Angie Colee (26:27):
Hmm I like that.
Nkiru Asika (26:27):
We'll sort of go through all of those. There'll be things like tech clinics, you know, there'll be, it's just, just so much, it's too much. It's too much. It's going to be awesome.
Angie Colee (26:27):
I like how you, and this is like such a nitpicky nerdy copywriter thing, but like a little tangent. Like, I love how you named the pillars because of "able". It's not just like follow these steps, but like you're able to do all these things. It's like a nice, subtle nod to, I love it. Word nerds. Um, like the reason that I wanted you to talk about that is because I wanted people to hear the mission and the passion and like what you're trying to build, because I wanted it. Like you told me that you had kind of a similar apprehension, like I had with releasing the podcast and to getting this out there in the world and you're in kind of the middle of it. Do you want to share a little bit about what you're going through? I guess?
Nkiru Asika (27:45):
Yeah. I mean, I mean, essentially, you know, I'm generally I'm somebody who has struggled with putting myself out there. If it comes to there's something like a podcast or a summit put me on stage, I'm fine. I will speak. I'm like, I'm completely fine. A hundred percent comfortable, but when it's sort of, I don't know, like the sort of maybe the social media kind of stuff, or, you know, being really like the brand, it's somehow like a challenge. I mean, before I came, I came to Canada like three and a bit years ago. And that's when I started copywriting and you know, this kind of stuff. So it was the first time I had done business as me, you know, I've been involved in, um, businesses before back home. Um, but I was always with like a partner. Um, my brother actually, and he was always the Rainmaker, you know what I mean? Um, and I was like operating, you know, um, I had a person.
Angie Colee (28:58):
A behind the scenes person.
Nkiru Asika (28:58):
Yeah. I had, I had a social enterprise in which I was, that was me. But even then I still included a lot of other people. So I don't know. I just never had that. I'd never had that sort of "okay, you are the brand." Right. Um, and it just makes me uncomfortable. That whole thing of like, I don't want to be seen as a self-promoter either, you know, I don't want to be like, what are these people that's on social media going, "Hey, look at me, look at me." Um, truly it's not about being a self promoter. It's about, you know, you have to share the message. It's a message. It's a message. It's a message I believe in. I believe that, you know, women entrepreneurs need to focus on sort of being thought leaders on being, you know, recognized voices and being people that people can look to, not just for you, but even for, for, for other women, for women, you know, generations younger than you, you know?
Angie Colee (29:59):
Absolutely. This is probably, I'm probably putting you on the spot a little bit here, but where do you think that fear comes from of being the brand? Is it, is it they're not going to, like, what I have to say is that they're going to be haters on all my work. Like
Nkiru Asika (30:15):
I think it's a combination of, you know, I think there's that, there's that fear of being judged. There's the, there's the fear of being misunderstood. There's a fear of, um, you know, I guess there's a fair bit of, will they still like me if I look like I'm trying to be all that, you know?
Angie Colee (30:40):
Oh, that's such a, you know, if you're a dude listening and you, and you feel this way, Hey, my brother, welcome to the club. I think almost every woman I know, feels like this all the time. Like if I start talking about my accomplishments, are they going to think that I'm bragging too much? Are they going to try and take me down a peg or two?
Nkiru Asika (30:58):
Exactly. Exactly. And, and it's, it's, it's really, it's, it's, it's like it's deep or it's like, It's like, yeah, it's deep. You know, it's, it's, it's like, it's like, it's like many layers deep. And I think about like, even like I'm Nigerian, right? So even though I spent a lot of my life in the UK, I schooled in the states, I'm now in Canada, but I'm Nigerian. That's, that's my culture. That's how I grew up. And there's still, there's still this thing, even though in no way are Nigerian women wallflowers or any such thing that I'm usually extremely kind of like bold personalities, but there is still, uh, a sort of, um, cultural reality that if you are seen as too out there to trying to be too, you know, loud and maybe promotional, you're actually, you're less attractive. You know, you it's like it's that, that thing of, um, you don't want to be too educated or you won't find a husband. You don't want to be too...do you know what I'm saying? I mean, you, you don't, you don't be too opinionated or no one man will want you, you don't want to be, you know, um, and even though that's not, that's not me, I'm highly opinionated, but I know that, that it's there.
Angie Colee (32:24):
I feel that on a very deep level, because I literally had one, one ex partner like this is from when I was pretty young, but just speaking like myself, just using the words that I choose to use and making the arguments that I like to make and thinking deeply about things, which are all my personal style. Uh, he would constantly tell me that he hated the way I made him feel dumb and that he thought that I was making him feel stupid on purpose. And that just broke my heart. Cause like, just by being myself and I'm not even trying to throw out.
Nkiru Asika (32:54):
I dated that guy, I dated that guy, Angie.
Angie Colee (32:58):
We all have. I was just like, there's, there's not a whole. In that regard with the don't be too much. There's not a whole lot of difference between Nigerian culture and Texan culture, because I got that to like stop being too loud, stop swearing so fucking much. Don't show off your education. You definitely got to keep up a certain level of appearance and nobody's ever going to want to deal with you. And I even remember to go back to the corporate office experience. I bet you'd appreciate this. One of those times when a dude stole my idea, I kind of lost it in the meeting and I did get a little bit emotional, which, you know, I don't know why anybody wouldn't get emotional if their idea was stolen right in front of them. But I basically called them out on it and said, "You know, I presented that idea and I'm glad that you like it." And my copy chief, my boss called me into the office and he was like, he, he wanted to talk to me about my emotional outburst. And I said, "Would you be having this discussion with me if I was a man?"
Angie Colee (33:57):
And I'm like, "I'm not trying to, you know, start a complaint or anything like that. But I honestly want to know if I was a young man who had just had the same reaction that I just had in the office. Would you be reacting this way to my response?" And to his credit, I love this man. He goes, "You know, honestly, I don't know." And I was like, Okay. So thank you for acknowledging that some of that at least is like a reaction to the woman shouldn't be emotional in this case. And I'm like, "I'm sorry, but my emotions are what make me so fucking great at what I do." I am empathetic. I understand people. I'm able to put myself in somebody else's shoes. Uh, I'm able to lead them without telling them what to do. I think these are qualities that a lot of women share, right? Able to juggle multiple balls. All the women out there that had to juggle schooling and family and jobs during the pandemic, like, oh my God, my freaking heroes. How are you still sane after all that? Like I'm sending all my love to you.
Nkiru Asika (34:57):
I know, I know I'm so glad my, my, my kids are uh, you know, older.
Angie Colee (35:03):
I just had a cat and now ex boyfriend, but, you know, I was, I was grateful during that time that it didn't, I didn't have to look after anybody, but myself and I realized how fortunate I was in that regard. But like, I don't know, all of these things that we've been told for so long are flaws are things that make us less attractive. I think it's now starting to come to the forefront that these are assets and fantastic. It's a feature, not a bug
Nkiru Asika (35:33):
That is. I love that. I love that. It's a feature, not a bug. I love that. Yeah.
Nkiru Asika (35:39):
Oh goodness. Oh, this has been a fantastic, thanks for letting me rant about so many things. I almost feel like I'm so glad you're on this mission though. I think that you're doing such great work. I hope that there are a lot of women out there and maybe, maybe even a few fellows and some others that are listening to this and get some value out of this. Uh, so tell us more about as we're recording this, we're recording this in May. So that's why we're talking about it in the future. By the time you hear this Nkiru will have launched.
Nkiru Asika (36:07):
Yes, by the time you hear this, Women Building Authority, the membership will have launched. Um, actually the membership will be called The Accelerator will have launched, um, the front facing website, which will have all sorts of, you know, valuable content, um, to help with your online marketing and branding and visibility and confidence and all the rest would have launched. Um, the agency is pretty much live now. So, uh, ready to support, you know, anybody with their online marketing and branding and getting you out there and implementing all the things that you're putting off so that you don't spend two years planning a podcast. You could probably have gotten done in three months.
Angie Colee (36:57):
Ouch. I hear you. I hear you.
Nkiru Asika (37:00):
I'm talking to myself, too.
Angie Colee (37:01):
I love this because it's a very meta application of everything that we've been talking about because I think you're coming on this podcast is a form of her holding her own feet to the fire, which I think is fantastic. So thank you so much for being on the show.
Nkiru Asika (37:14):
Um, thank you.
Angie Colee (37:14):
Do you have, uh, another website or anything else that you want them to check out?
Nkiru Asika (37:18):
Yeah. If you, you know, yeah. You can go to womenbuildingauthority.com and you'll get all the information about, um, the website and everything there for the agency's website is authority digital agency.com. And I also have a little gift that, um, will be in the links so download, uh, "23 Quick and Easy Ways to Instantly Boost Your Brand or Authority." You can grab that and start
Angie Colee (37:49):
I will make sure they have all of these links by the way they can click them. So, all right. Thank you so much for being on the show. I can see a follow-up! We're going to do a follow-up, because I want to hear what it was like the before and the after. We need both book ends.
Nkiru Asika (38:04):
I'd love to do that. I'd be thrilled, thrilled to be back.
Angie Colee (38:08):
Alright. Thank you so much.
Nkiru Asika (38:09):
Thanks, Angie. Thanks, Angie's peeps.
Angie Colee (38:15):
So that is it. Another awesome episode of Permission to Kick Ass on the books. If you want to know more about the show or if you want to know more about me, Angie Colee and the mission I'm on to help entrepreneurs punch fear in the face and do big bold things, then head on over to permissiontokickass.com. That is all one word together, permissiontokickass.com. Make sure to sign up for my email list so that you know whenever there's a hot, fresh and ready podcast episode out for you. And also on Mondays, I like to send out a little newsletter called Kick Monday's Ass. I'm sure you're totally, totally surprised by that. So thank you for being here with me today. I'm Angie Colee. Make sure that you share this with a friend that needs to hear this message today. Like it, share it, comment wherever you're listening to this today and let's go kick some ass.