Permission to Kick Ass

35: Fabienne Raphael

Episode Summary

What do a professional athlete, home stager, physical therapist, business coach, and wildly successful entrepreneur all have in common? They’re all the same person! My guest today is Fabienne Raphael, and she goes way beyond a triple threat. And rather than following the traditional biz advice of niching down and choosing the ONE thing, she leaned into ALL of her strengths. Listen to find out what happens when you dare to do things your own way.

Episode Notes

When you’re good at a lot of things, focusing on one thing can be a challenge. Instead of asking herself “What do I do?,” Fabienne asked, “who can I help?” That mindset shift helped her set her own head trash on fire, take massive action, and move her business from best-kept secret to the pages of Forbes. If you’re looking to step out of the shadows with your business, you’ve gotta check this one out. 

Can’t-Miss Moments From This Episode:

This one is jam-packed full of advice. Don’t miss out - listen now!

Fabienne’s Bio:

Fabienne Raphaël is the creator of the DREAM Method. She helps former pro/elite athletes monetize their expertise, so they can have a greater impact in the lives of others.

Her background in radio and television hosting led her to be featured on top ranked global podcasts, which she uses to help her clients get more visibility.  

Fabienne has been featured in Forbes, ABC, FOX, CBS, Inc. and Huffington Post and has appeared on over 40 mastermind groups, summits and podcasts, such as Entrepreneur on Fire.

Fabienne uses her background as a former elite athlete and high performance coaching to help her clients make an incredible income doing what they love. 

Resources and links mentioned:

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Episode Transcription

Angie Colee (00:02):

Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass. A podcast about leaving self-doubt in the dust, punching fear in the face and taking bold action toward your biggest dreams. I'm Angie Colee, and let's get to it. Hey and welcome back to Permission to Kick Ass. With me today is my new friend, Fabienne Raphael. Can you say hi?

Fabienne Raphael (00:26):

Yeah, I can say hi. Hi.

Angie Colee (00:28):

Will you tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do?

Fabienne Raphael (00:30):

Yes. So, um, yeah, I'm Fabienne Raphael. I'm a former elite athlete in handball, a former home stager and a former physical therapist turned online business coach for former elite and pro athletes and high achievers. And I helped them monetize their knowledge so they can become their own boss and create and build their coaching empire online, changing lives, like changing their own. And, uh, I've been doing that for a while now, and it really fulfills me because, uh, you know, when you wake up and you witnessed the changes that happens in the client's lives, it's, uh, it's, it's extremely fulfilling and it's like, it fills me with joy. So, uh, yeah, in a nutshell, that's what I do.

Angie Colee (01:15):

I think that's awesome. And of course, people can't see the video that we're recording now, but you and I are looking at each other and as you're listing all of the things that you've done in the past, my jaw was just like dropping lower and lower. I feel like so many entrepreneurs, I know have this weird path where we've done a whole bunch of different things like wow. Elite athlete, wow, home stager. Wow. Oh my God. There's more awesome. Do you think that having so much diverse background experience really adds to what you bring as a coach?

Fabienne Raphael (01:45):

That's such a great question because for a long time I thought it was a curse. Um, so if I go back to growing up, um, I touched like many things and I was talented in many things. So I'm the kind of person, if I throw myself into something and if I put my effort, I can make it work. Uh, and I have a lot of curiosity. So I touched many things as you can see, and I didn't even say like all of it, you know? Um, so, so when I got into the online world and people are talking about niching down and, you know, being specialized into like one field, um, for me it was a problem because I was like, well, what if this interests me? And what if this, what if I get a little bit of everything? Right? Uh, but then eventually I realized that this is what makes me unique.

Fabienne Raphael (02:32):

And each of those things that I've learned from the different backgrounds I can bring into, like the person I am today and share with my, with my clients, you know, uh, as long as it's from sports or from physical therapy or from, you know, like, um, being creative, like doing drawing lessons or playing the piano whatsoever, I feel that everything got like made me learn that I can transmit to, to my clients. So, uh, so yeah, now I really identify it as, okay, it's a strength and it's a gift. And, uh, if I can share what I've learned along the way with my clients, well, so be it.

Angie Colee (03:12):

Oh, I love that and I'm so glad that we are starting right off the bat with this, because I feel like a lot of the coaching students that I work with, I help people start their businesses, especially creative freelancers. So like artists, painters, writers, especially have a lot of writing friends. They, when they come to me with a background like yours, or like mine, I picked up trash. I've been a firefighter, been a lots of weird things before I came to writing. Um, they always see that as some sort of stone around their neck. Like I don't have, I'm not coming to this with 10 years of accounting experience. I'm not coming to this with 10 years of aerospace experience and they see it as a big minus. And so I really like that. You've got two strong, powerful coaches, powerful women here, standing here saying, Hey, I had a lot of really random junk and it's actually bringing value to what I do now, because I've got a lot of great stories involving falling on my face on stage and accidentally flashing my behind to people. So I'm like, if I can do that and get up and keep singing, you can speak on stage. I promise. It's okay. It's okay. You're probably not going to flash your butt to people after singing "Tush" by ZZ Top.

Fabienne Raphael (04:17):

Yeah. This should have been awful. Like, oh my God, how did you feel?

Angie Colee (04:24):

It was my worst fear come true. Like my God, it held me back from, uh, from applying for auditioning for bands for years. Cause I was afraid I was gonna forget the words, blow a note, make a fool of myself on stage. I managed to do all of those things in fairly short order when I first joined the band. Um, and I remember just falling down and thinking for a second as these people are staring, but because I wore a skirt when I tripped, um, okay, well I either have to run away and hide my face and never be seen again. Or I have to get through this next break. Cause we were on break and get back up and perform again. And so in a split second, I got up and made a joke. "Well, I apparently can't sing Tush without showing you mine. We'll be back in 10 minutes."

Fabienne Raphael (05:08):

That's awesome. Yeah.

Angie Colee (05:10):

Walk off into the night to take a shot and dull the nerves

Fabienne Raphael (05:13):

But so courageous though. And I feel that, uh, probably like this was, um, I don't know, like, I guess whenever you have something to, to face that scares you, then you think about that. It was like, yeah, if I've been over that, then you know, what else can happen? You know, who cares about people's judgments?

Angie Colee (05:32):

I know, no kidding. But like, it's, it's really easy to get sucked into that fear, especially when you're doing something new. Like, I don't know if I can figure out my way through that. What if I do fall on my face? And I love telling people, I mean, if you fall down in real life, not in your hypothetical business situation or whatever you're trying to do, you don't lay down and wait for death to take you.

Fabienne Raphael (05:54):

That's true. It can be long if you just lay down and wait.

Angie Colee (05:57):

Yes Just wait. Yeah. Just waiting with the rain and the animals and all kinds of crazy stuff. But we dramatize that a lot, especially in business, which is really weird. Like if I, if I hit one stumbling block, it's going to be all over for me.

Fabienne Raphael (06:08):

Yeah. But you said, you said something that, that struck with me here, uh, in our conversation you said, uh, you know, like people feel that when they're starting, like, you know, because they, they, they don't own the thing or they don't know everything. Um, for me, I have to say that with my clients, like they already know what they're great at. So they already have their zone of genius and that people can't take it away from you, you know, your new skills are maybe your business skills or the fact that you don't know how to market yourself, but you have literally the potential to be helping someone right here right now with all the skills that you already have. And I feel that this is what people are missing when they're getting started. Like, oh my God, like they, they, you know, they, they refuse to own their worth. And they're like, no, I'm just a beginner. I'm starting my coaching business. I'm starting to, you know, teach this or whatever. But like, all the skills that you've gained over the years. Like they don't have value. Like what is this? So I hate when people are like, well, you know, when they're claiming that they're beginners like beginner coaches, I'm like, yeah, you're a beginner and having your business, but no, you're not a beginner at helping people get that transformation. Um, so I just wanted to make that clear.

Angie Colee (07:23):

No, I love that. And head trash is so pervasive. Isn't it? Like we come up with all kinds of little reasons to justify our fears. I know when, so I did copywriting for 10 years. I still do some on occasion, but mostly I'm transitioning to coaching and I had the same kind of head trash too. Oh, I've literally been paid to coach for other people's programs. And I've been coaching for years and years, but I'm going out on my own now. And I don't know what I'm doing and like, blah, blah, blah, blah, all of that head trash. And finally, this is why I love my mentors. I deliberately surround myself with people that call me on my BS in a very loving and supportive way of course. They shine a mirror right back at me and go, you know you're being ridiculous, right? So, uh, I, I had this story in my head when I first got started, got started with my own coaching business that how can I convince them they can start their own business when I can't show them, I have had mine. Like, I've worked for a lot of people in partnership with a lot of people for a long time. And one of my coaches just goes, "yeah, but have you helped people start a business?" And I was like, "well, yeah." He goes, "Well, how many people have you helped start a business?" And I was like, "Oh, dozens." "Do they have results?" And I was like, "oh yeah. One just signed like a 12 month contract with his dream clients and it's going pretty well." And he was like, "so, remind me again, why you can't start a coaching business?"

Fabienne Raphael (08:34):


Angie Colee (08:34):

But it's funny how comforting it is to kind of step into that fear and just wallow in it for a while.

Fabienne Raphael (08:44):

Yeah. But then, yeah. And then that kind of fear too, is like, okay, get over it. Like, just focus on the people that you want to help instead of focusing it on yourself. Like, you know, when, when all the attentions like, "Oh my God, how am I going to feel, you know, why would people? Why would people pay me whatsoever?" Okay. So what about you focus on what you can do to help people. And then all your attention is on these people. So basically you're solution oriented. Like you want to find a plan to help them out, or you want to do whatever it takes to make it happen for them. So take the attention away from yourself. And probably like, I'm not saying it will, it will like make all your problems go away, but maybe part of it and it will give you that kick to actually get started. At least.

Angie Colee (09:30):

I think that's brilliant. It's super brilliant. I've I've long had a philosophy in my personal life. Like when I'm getting sucked into anxiety spirals, I try to make my world bigger as I call it. Like I've clearly become the center of the universe and my problems are so large that I can't see a way around them. So I need to get out of my center of the universe experience and like go out into the big world. And usually fairly quick order, I get that perspective that reminds me. I'm probably not even going to remember this moment in five years. So why am I freaking out about this now? And it gets me unstuck and gets me going, but I don't. This is why I love coaching so much too, because there are so many people that can just give you such brilliant perspective. And I had another coach recently that challenged me on, cause I'm very uncomfortable talking about myself and my accomplishments.

Angie Colee (10:19):

I've got some pretty big accomplishments. I've worked for some pretty big names. We talked a little bit before the call about how, you know, for a long time I've been kind of the behind the scenes person that makes other people into stars. Um, and one day he said, "okay, but if you challenged yourself to start talking about your accomplishments and owning them more, would that help other people feel confident and more willing to try it?" And I was like, "oh shit, you got me there to do this uncomfortable thing." But he, in that, he did that exactly what you're talking about in that moment made me think about what I could help other people accomplish. If I took the focus off myself.

Fabienne Raphael (11:01):

Yeah. That's crazy. Because like, and, and we, we see that proof every, every day on social media, for example, like someone you've never seen someone who's never interacted with your content, who's never commented. You don't know that person and randomly, they hit your inbox and they say, or they hit the comments and said "What you said today, I really needed to hear it." Or "I've been following you for a while. And uh, I want to know more about how you can help me"or, you know, for some reason while, I guess it's because of those, you know, complicated algorithms on social media, for some reason, like sometimes people are like, oh, I feel like no, one's listening. No one's reading. No one's doing whatsoever, but it doesn't mean that because you don't have any interaction under your post that nobody's listening and you're not impacting other people's lives. You definitely do. So you just have dare to share it and then let the magic happen.

Angie Colee (11:57):

And consistently too. Cause I know a lot of people that I've encouraged to post or share or teach on their topic. Like if they don't see results within three to six months, they think they're a failure. And I'm like, no, to see three to six months is probably about the time where everybody else is giving up. So if you just keep going, even if it feels like nothing is happening before long, you're going to publish that year in such a habit of publishing. You're going to put that thing out there that really takes off. And you're going to be like, well, I worked six months and it was one post that did that. No, it was six months of effort that got you to that one post.

Fabienne Raphael (12:30):

Oh, true. So true. And that's why, and that's why I'm so big on, you know, the thing about the consistency is about being clear about why, why are you doing this and what impact you want to have in this world? Um, and what you strongly believe in and what your values are. Because when it's clear, you wake up every day and you do something towards that goal. And it becomes easy to create that habit. But when you do something counter-intuitively like, or if you do something just to make money or just like, you don't have that clear purpose, or it's not, it's not so deep for you. What you're doing then of course, it's like the first thing that's going to come up. Oh, it's raining today. I don't feel like working. I'll just lay in bed all day and not post anything or not connect with people or not trying to create connections or whatever. Um, so, uh, so yeah, just wanted to add that because I feel it's important.

Angie Colee (13:20):

No I think that's brilliant. Netflix is calling. I can't work today.

Fabienne Raphael (13:24):

Well, Netflix is calling. I mean, come on. Netflix is good

Angie Colee (13:30):

Once upon a time. Um, I actually, I worked in, uh, TV development, which are the people that find the show concepts and bring them to the networks and kind of match the branding up. Um, and then I got laid off from the Oprah Winfrey network and fell into copywriting by accident. I love a good TV show. Let me tell you, and I am prone to holing up on the weekend and just like binge watching an entire season, but you can't let that take the place of living your life, getting out there, talking to people and trying to contribute.

Fabienne Raphael (13:59):


Angie Colee (14:00):

I think that's great. Yeah. And I, you know, into something that we were talking about before the call, uh, that results don't necessarily take time, but they take courage. Can you expand on that a little?

Fabienne Raphael (14:13):

Yeah. I mean, uh, my, my latest mentor, uh, she's the one that always saying that and, uh, and she's so, and she's so right, because, um, I used to believe that getting money quickly is impossible. Um, but like by working with her, I realized that it's, that's not true because some people, when they get like fast results, it's because there are many things that they decided to do that the majority of people won't even dare to think about for doing it themselves. Right. Um, and, and yeah, so it's just like a question of expanding your mind into what if it was easy instead of being hard. Right. What if like, you know, your biggest fear becomes like your greatest assets eventually because you decide to just, okay, I'll do it. Cause most of the time, what we're really afraid of doing, like with all those stories and the head trash you call it.

Fabienne Raphael (15:12):

It's great. I love that, those words, um, that you have in your head, that story, then you do the thing and you're like, oh, it is not as bad as I thought. So sometimes you've been, you've been struggling thinking about that thing for the last six months or for the last five years, you know, I've had clients who had that had their dream coaching business in their heads for like 20 years. Never acted on it because of fear. What if, you know, I don't know enough and all that stuff, but then when they get started and they get yeah a quick result, they're like, oh my God, how come it was so quick? Well, it can be quick when you decide to do the right things and you have the courage to actually, um, you know, do them.

Angie Colee (15:55):

I love that. I feel like that is a major stopping block for a lot of people trying to do something new, not just trying to start a business is that they add all these complicated things in there that seem like they should be there, that they contribute to your success. And I've been thinking about that same thing a lot. Like what if it could be, how could I make this easier on myself? Um, and I teach some of my students, this concept that I call like lemonade stands, no, you don't need the branding. You don't need the new headshots. You don't need the perfect website. Like I want you to think flea market. Like I showed up with my product, I set up a table and I asked for money. That's where you start. And then you get the money. And then eventually you're going to invest in the website and you're going to invest in traffic and you're going to try and grow your business. But like starting get a product and find somebody that wants to give you money. I mean, that's a little bit simplified, but it can't be that simple.

Fabienne Raphael (16:50):

Yeah. And I, and I love how you say it. And I understand why people fall into that trap. Like I was one of them, you know, because I'll be bombarded by this thing called the internet and, you know, ads and great marketers, you know, who know how to copyright and they convince you and you're like, oh my God, like, I'm about to get started, but I don't have a website. I don't have the funnel. I don't have my Facebook ads ready. I don't have my photo shoot done. And then what you do, you take out of your personal money and you invest all of that into, and sometimes creating a website. For example, when you get started, it's not a great idea. Cause you're not even clear on who you're serving, like what they're looking for. You don't have any experience like working with clients and it's not like, and then what will happen? You, I dunno, you invest 5,000 into that. And then three months later, you're like, yeah, I don't think I'll work with that niche anymore. I'll just switch. And you have to redo everything, like what's the point?

Angie Colee (17:53):

For everybody listening lest you think we're joking - that happens with probably like half the students that I know, if they're just starting out in a business, they go all in on a website and then they actually get clients and start doing the work and go, "oh, this is not what I thought it was. I don't like this at all." And we do all that work. Oh my gosh. Like make a list of everybody you've ever met in your professional life, in your personal life and email them and say, "Hey, I'm doing writing now. Do you know anybody that needs a good writer?" Like just reach out to people and provide a service and ask for money. And then as you start working with people, you're going to get the feedback. I'm like, "Ooh, I do not like that project. No more of that." Or "that person was fun. How do I get more of them? How do I get them to hire me again?" Like the action is going to give you way more data than studying and studying and studying.

Fabienne Raphael (18:43):

Hmm. Yeah. You said the key word here. Action. Um, I remember that when I got started with my first business, which was not like, uh, online, it was a health, uh, it was a healthcare agency. And uh, I mean, I wouldn't talk about it. Like it was, if it was the best kept secret, you know, like, I didn't want to say to people that I, you know, I had a business and what's up as it as if like it would, it was going to help me with my marketing. Right. Um, so, so I feel that, yeah, a lot of people are like that, you know, they're the, the most brilliant coaches and they're hiding behind their computers and they never say anything. They're quiet. They could become, multi-six figure owners or millionaires, but because they don't share anything that nobody knows about it. And it's just a loss, like a lost talent, expertise, zone of genius whatsoever. And, and then after that, while they say it doesn't work, you know?

Angie Colee (19:42):

Yeah. That, you know, you said something else before the call that I wrote down, because I wanted to make sure that we talked about that. And I think this ties in perfectly to that, that it's selfish to stay hidden.

Fabienne Raphael (19:53):

Yeah, it is.It is definitely.

Angie Colee (19:55):

That one hit me right in the gut and I instantly got it and was like, yes. I mean, cause I struggled with that too. And I think at some point that's a little bit of a, kind of a majority culture narrative that's floating out there. Like you keep your head down, you work really hard. People notice how hard you're working and then they go to bat for you and then they go advertise your thing. And that's how it these things take off like, no, at first you're going to be the one out there shouting into the void going, "Can I help you? No. Okay, fine. Thank you. Can I help you? Can I get it? Okay. Hey, Hey, I'll work with you. Yes." Uh,

Fabienne Raphael (20:32):

Yeah, the thing about like, yeah, being selfish and I think we spoke about it a little bit earlier. Um, the fact that, you know, you, you never know who you might influence or who you might impact or you know, what, what is going to change in their lives, um, I think one of the most heartfelt testimony I received was from this guy. Um, and he heard me on think it was when I was on entrepreneur, on fire and he heard something and then he slid into my inbox and said, uh, what you said there? Um, to me it was like, it gave me the courage to actually start my own decide to start my own podcast. He was dealing with, uh, like he had health, um, mental health issues, uh, you know, suicidal and all that stuff. And he was like, I found my purpose and now I want to do it.

Fabienne Raphael (21:27):

And then he invited me to be a guest on this podcast and of course, I said, yes. I was like, well, because like, because of something I said, I don't even remember what it was. It was something very simple for me, but it was a life change for him, even though like, I didn't know him before, you know? Um, and he, he had the courage to express it to me also. So I was grateful for that too. Cause he, he communicated it with me. So what I always tell my clients is that whenever someone communicates with you like that, or they post something in the comments under your post and you're like, you screen capture it and you have that folder.

Angie Colee (22:04):


Fabienne Raphael (22:04):

And you're on your phone, like somewhere that you could, you know, on your Google drive, whatever, somewhere that is easily accessible. And whenever you have this huge amount of doubts, like, "Oh, is it going to work? Who's listening to me. Am I really impacting people?" You go back to that folder and read all these comments, like, and receive all the love and the impact making on other people's lives. And you're like, "I'm not that bad. Okay. It seems that, uh, you know, that's meaningful. Right?" Um, so yeah, I call it data. Yeah. Yeah. Keep that data and go back to it like regularly, because this is what, and sometimes like, even, even someone like myself, even if I've been in business for more than 10 years, like I have those moments where I'm like, "really, am I really doing it? Different, making a difference in this world? Like, am I really helping someone today?" And I go back to that folder and then I'm all energized. And I'm like, "Nope. Yeah. This is why I keep doing what I'm doing. And I just go on"

Angie Colee (23:06):

I love that. I think I jokingly refer to that as like rebalancing the pendulum because we tend to like swing way toward negative and we need to, we need to add the balance. We need to add the extra positive to offset all of that negative. And I've, I've kept, I call it a "Kudos file." I kept I've kept a kudos file for years. Um, and I even know that there, there was a big name guru in the internet marketing space that I worked with who had a whole slack channel dedicated to love and kudos. And so the whole team was basically trained to go grab screenshots and testimonials that people were posting online about this product. And I know for a fact that he would go into there regularly read that and be like, okay, yes, I am making a difference.

Fabienne Raphael (23:47):

Yeah, that's crazy. Right?

Angie Colee (23:48):

If you're just starting out. Or you're like a eight figure business and you're doing pretty well for yourself. Like these same doubts, pop up at every single level, just new and different problems. So, and, and tying back to what we were talking about earlier with somebody who has been following you, like if you're out there consistently sharing your stuff, they've been following you for a while, but they never said anything. I would almost bet that that person that had the courage to reach out to you and say something represents probably at least a dozen more, that never said a thing.

Fabienne Raphael (24:19):


Angie Colee (24:19):

But just continued to live their life with that altered perspective. And it made a big difference even if they weren't really aware of it. So like, just because they aren't saying anything doesn't mean it's not happening.

Fabienne Raphael (24:29):

No, that's so true. Yeah. And that's part, I feel that it's part of, uh, our mission in this world, you know, we all have stuff to share and, and we all learn from each other. Um, so you know, when you go on and you share your stuff, then of course people are going to receive it. And the ones that feel that they relate with your message, then they'll receive it more and they'll tend to follow you a little bit more. Um, but, but I feel like, yeah, it all starts with you saying something though.

Angie Colee (25:00):


Fabienne Raphael (25:01):

Or else it's, I don't know. It's uh, yeah, it's a loss.

Angie Colee (25:06):

You have to put it out there. Um, and then, you know, to tie it into what you were talking about, talking about yourself and not staying hidden. Um, I know one thing that I really struggled with for a long time was asking for help. I don't know if you ever felt like, especially if I had a problem that it felt like I should be able to figure this out, which first of all, I feel like should, should be a four letter word. Like my best friend always says, stop shoulding on yourself. Okay. Okay. I will stop that. Um, yeah. It just, it frustrates me.

Fabienne Raphael (25:42):

Yeah. I, I get, I get that. I mean, I, sometimes I'm still like that, but then I, I have to remind myself and step out of it. Like, so now I have way more self-awareness but like I have to admit that. Yeah. There was a point where I was like, yeah, I've done that before. How come I make that mistake again? Or, you know, and then you don't reach out and you're like, yeah, let me look for the solution. And, and sometimes, you know, you would ask that specific person, only that question, and it would have been solved within like 30 seconds. But no, because they're like, no, I should know better. And then you spend hours or weeks on something that could have taken like 30 seconds to fix if you connected with the right person. Um, but, um, but yeah, when I started with my online journey, I started with my podcast and I had to, uh, I wanted to interview a bunch of influencers.

Fabienne Raphael (26:35):

So I was, I was still like unknown. Nobody knew who I was, but I dared to connect with so many people. And I received yes from people that I never thought would say yes, because I had sent a message like that. And it's because, and it's just because I dared to do it. That's the thing. Um, and I feel that just that experience though, like really shaped me into, okay not being scared of asking anyone anything. And I'm not saying, taking advantage of someone cause that's different. You know, like if I meet you for the first time, like, "Hey, Angie, give me that!" I mean, you don't know me. I don't know you. And then I'm like, "yeah, I know you have this. Please give it to me for free." Like, just like that. This is not the way I'm talking about. I'm talking about, you know, creating, nurturing a relationship or connecting and bonding on, on something that we have in common. And then eventually when the relationship nurtures and stuff, like, see if there's something that's possible, then you know, you explore that. That's what I mean. So I feel that the experience of just daring to, um, you know, ask for help when you need it. Uh, it shapes like everything else. And it helps for relationships that helps for business. It helps for like many things in life.

Angie Colee (27:51):

Yeah. And I think like, you know, there's two great things that I was thinking about there, like a realization that I had over the years that we get in our heads a little bit when solving a problem and because we're struggling with it, we tend to project that on other people. Like, I can't bother them with this problem. It's going to take up too much of their time. And then just like you pointed out what, but they have a solution for that. And it would take five seconds and you know, you and I have been coaching long enough to know what that feels like when somebody goes, well, I don't want to bother you with this. And I'm like, lay it on me. Give me the pro, okay. Yeah. I'm going to give you this resource. I'm going to introduce you to that person. And then they come back the next day and say, "oh my God, you fixed my problem. I'm so grateful for you." Which makes me feel amazing. Like I helped you get unstuck. I didn't ask you for, well, first, before I connect you to this person that could solve your problem inside five minutes, I'm going to need a fee for that. Like, no, you asked me something, I can help you inside five minutes. That's going to get you unstuck. Absolutely. So I, I like to talk about it as not robbing other people of the joy of helping you because we all like to help other people, like we've been helped, I think. Um, and I think that ties in wonderfully to what you were talking about with asking the people that you didn't think would come on your show. I think they want to help too, but nobody wants to ask cause they're too intimidated.

Fabienne Raphael (29:08):

Yeah. So true. So true. And like, for example, like the first feature I got on Forbes, it was just a year after, about a year after I started my podcast and it was out of a guest that I invited on my podcast and we had a conversation and then I was like, oh, what if we go write an article on Forbes? Cause I knew she was a contributor and she accepted. And at that time I didn't, it was, it wasn't even clear like who I was going to serve or you know, what I was doing. I was still trying to figure it out. But for some reason I was on Forbes and it's because I dare to ask. And also because I kept that relationship going with that person, you know, I didn't just ask like that before that there were a few occasions where I offered support or I commented on something that she wrote or I followed her work and all that stuff. So, uh, so yeah, things can happen if we do it in the right way. Nope, no human being like to be taken advantage of.

Angie Colee (30:06):

And I'm glad you said that too. Cause I think there's a lot of confusion in the, in the beginning side of entrepreneurship about this concept of value. Like I need to add value and a lot of us, I think, and I fell into this trap too. So I'm definitely talking about Beginner Angie thinking that I have to come up with some unique, brilliant insight that nobody else ever thought of before. I can't say the same thing anybody else has said because that's not valuable. Like I have to be brilliant. And then I realized at one point like there's value in me helping somebody with that five minute problem that, you know, it took me next to no time to solve there's value in sitting with somebody at the bar outside of an event and just trading crazy stories and bonding like that. That's a value too, because even though we're not talking business and we're not doing anything and no money is trading hands or anything like that, that conference is more enjoyable.

Angie Colee (30:56):

It's less stressful. Everybody's guard is relaxing a little bit because we're just having fun. And that actually occurred to me once at a conference when I was at a bar, a bunch of us had it and I drank, but I know a lot of people that don't drink. So, you know, whether you drink or not, no judgment. Um, we're at a bar we're having some drinks and we started playing this card game. And at some point in the middle of the card game, I went, this is business. I like business. I want to do more of this. Like this is way less hard than everything I was doing before trying to do my website and figuring out the paid traffic. And what's my right offer. Like I'm at the bar playing cards, having a drink with friends. And then they call me a couple of days later and say, "Hey, I had a great time at the conference. I'm back. I'm settled. Let's talk business." What?

Fabienne Raphael (31:41):

Yeah, this and this. I think this is hard to believe when we get excited because we feel, as he said that we have to sound different, you know? But there are many of us sharing exactly the same stuff and we don't have the same audience because my personality and yours are different and we're not going to attract the same type of clients. And it's okay. And the fact that you said, you know, you go in and have a drink and play cards with, with people. And then eventually they come back for business is like the bond with the human side of you. And then they're like, "oh my God, I love that person. I like what she stands for. Um, I like her values. We share that in common." So you connected on, on something else than just business. And that's why a lot of people feel so attacked and they should feel attacked when your first interaction is buy my product, my website, or join my Facebook group. When I haven't even spoken to you or gotten to know you.

Angie Colee (32:42):

When it's all about me, me, me like, Hey, you nice to meet you. And now about me.

Fabienne Raphael (32:48):

Exactly. Yeah.

Angie Colee (32:48):

I feel like that's what's happening with all of those, you know, the business card droppers. I'm sure you've been to a meeting where that happens. Like local chamber of commerce is particularly bad about that. I almost feel like these guys have a competition to just like, see how many cards they can pass out at the end of the night. And I'm like, well, that's going in the trash. Can I use this to start a bonfire leader? Cause I have no idea. Like the second I leave because we haven't actually engaged whatsoever. I don't remember who you are from all of the other people that handed me a business card. I don't remember how you can help me. So if I just look at your card and go, well, I don't need a realtor right now. Bye. Okay. That's it like, that was your one shot at getting my attention. And now I don't remember you. I, you know, that's, that's kind of dramatize, but like it's so easy to create relationships. And yet that seems to be the thing that we avoid most in business. Like we can't be people

Fabienne Raphael (33:49):

Yeah, that's true. That's true.

Angie Colee (33:54):

You can absolutely be people in business, like I know, well I was showing you my tattoos before, because I have these tiny little, uh, tattoos in, in fonts that are infringed on my wrist. And I remember when I first got these couple of decades ago, my dad was like, well, that's it. "You're not going to be able to get a job now." And the interesting thing was most people, first of all, don't even realize their tattoos. They think I'm wearing like a bracelet or something unless I happened to be reading and they see the words. And then when they see the words and they realize, well, it's a word. And I kind of know what that is, but I don't is that another language? It starts a conversation. And interestingly enough, my visible tattoos that my dad said would make sure that nobody ever hired me again, wound up being a connection point for me and other people, which you know, I'm not saying go tattoo yourself as a means to start conversations. If that's not who you are. But like, you know, it, it was important to me when I was younger. Cause I have these words and they say basically, respect, truth, hope, and honor. And I have them facing me to remind me who I want to be. And then like you said, when they connect, we talk, they discover that that's one of my, that's a value I hold so important that I've permanently inked it on my body. I love that about me. Whereas other people are going to be like, well she says ass too much, I don't know. I can't work with that. Okay.

Fabienne Raphael (35:12):

That's okay.

Angie Colee (35:12):

There are people out there that never, ever swear and they will be happy to help you. I'm going to drop all of the F-bombs because sometimes fuck is the just right word. Sometimes it is.

Fabienne Raphael (35:27):

So you've been warned.

Angie Colee (35:29):

Yes. So you've been warned. I've had past guests pop up on the show and they will stay at the word and then go, "oh, is it all right to swear?" And I'm like the show is called "Permission to Kick Ass" guys. It's totally fine. Gosh. Oh man, I'm loving this so much. Uh, I could talk about this all day. I think we're going to book up a follow-up call if that's all right with you and tell us a little bit more about how to find you online.

Fabienne Raphael (35:55):

Yes. So it's easy. It's my name -

Angie Colee (35:59):

Oh fantastic. I'll make sure that they have a clickable link in the show notes. Um, and thank you so much for being on the show. I had so much fun.

Fabienne Raphael (36:07):

Yeah, me too actually. I'm like I'm ready for part two.

Angie Colee (36:10):

Ready for part two. We're going to hang up right now and we're going to book part two, guaranteed. Thank you so much for being on the show.

Fabienne Raphael (36:18):

It was my pleasure. Thank you for inviting me.

Angie Colee (36:23):

So that is it another awesome episode of permission to kick on the books. If you want to know more about the show, if you want to know more about me, Angie coli and the mission I'm on to help entrepreneurs punch fear in the face and do big bold things, then head on over to permission to kick That is all one word together, permission to kick Make sure to sign up for my email list so that, you know, whenever there's a hot, fresh and ready podcast episode out for you. And also on Mondays, I like to send out a little newsletter called kick Mondays as I'm sure you're totally, totally surprised by that. So thank you for being here with me today. I'm Angie coli. Make sure that you share this with a friend that needs to hear this message today. Like it, share it. Comment wherever you're listening to this today and let's go kick some mess.