Permission to Kick Ass

40: Chima Mmeje

Episode Summary

The Pandemic changed business for a lot of people — and none more so than my guest today, Chima Mmeje. After losing all her clients in one week, she didn’t jump ship on her business to chase quick profit. She rode out the storm to find not only success but happiness on her terms. Listen to this episode for a crash course on resilience for your biz.

Episode Notes

If you’ve been in the entrepreneurial space for any amount of time, you’re probably familiar with “$10k a month” and “$100k a year”. Those numbers are thrown around so often it’s easy to feel pressured to make them your own personal target. But Chima had different goals… when the Pandemic challenged how she ran her biz, Chima stayed true to her definition of success. Her persistence and dedication lead to success than goes way beyond “The 5-Figure Month” hype. If you’ve ever felt the heat to reach a goal number with your biz, this one’s for you. Listen now. 

Can’t-Miss Moments From This Episode:

This one is jam-packed full of advice. Don’t miss out - listen now!

Chima’s Bio:

Chima Mmeje is an SEO content writer and content strategist who specializes in building and executing topic clusters for SaaS and tech companies. She's been featured on top sites like Semrush, Entrepreneur, Hackernoon, and Hubspot.

Resources and links mentioned:

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Episode Transcription

Angie Colee (00:02):

Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass. A podcast about leaving self-doubt in the dust, punching fear in the face and taking bold action toward your biggest dreams. I'm Angie Colee, and let's get to it. Hey and welcome back to Permission to Kick Ass. With me is my new friend Chima Mmeje. Say hi.

Chima Mmeje  (00:25):

Hi Angie. Nice to meet you.

Angie Colee (00:27):

I know it was funny. We are actually meeting for the first time, even though we've been floating around the same copywriter circles for a while. So I was really glad that we got connected because I think you have a really interesting story. Um, yeah. And before the call, we were talking about a couple things that I thought were interesting. So I'm just going to kind of throw you into the deep end. Um, I was really intrigued by your thoughts about not competing with anybody, but yourself, no matter or competing with anybody else, no matter how badly you think you're doing. Can you expand on that a little?

Chima Mmeje  (01:00):

Yeah, it's definitely, um, uh, freelancing is a very competitive world. Like, oh my God, it's this crazy competition. There's there seems to be an obsession, an active obsession with one hundred k and 10k months. And from the moment I became a freelancer in 2019 April, I have been pitched, coach message sent. Like every coach is selling the same thing, 100 k, 10k months. And then when, you know when you're not hitting these big numbers, when you're not doing six figures or when you're not successful in that way, it makes you feel like you're doing something wrong, but when you have the bad moments and then you come on Facebook and you see somebody who is talking about having a 30 K months and you're like, oh my God, what the fuck am I doing wrong? Why am I not having this 10 k months or 60 k months or 30 k months? so you start to second guess yourself. And then you think ok, the type of copywriting is not creative enough. You need to be doing launch copy or writing sales copy, or I think something that's of direct response. Basically something that's going to get you 50 K month. And so that you can get what to Brad, like the rest of them are Facebook. So it's very important to stay the course. It's something that has helped me because I remember when I was struggling last year, I had like it. Okay. After the, after COVID-19 I lost all of my clients, all of my clients, I went from doing great in March to having no clients in April, from April till September. And then I remember someone who was messaging me, I say, okay, are you sure it's not time for you to leave SEO copy? And then move to something more lucrative, like launch copy or emails or sales copy. And I was like, I don't want to do that stuff. I like writing SEO content. This is what I want to do. I just need to stay the course until the tide shifted. But if I had been tempted at that point, because she said that was crazy. That is what's giving her 50k months. Then I could have shifted to do something I don't enjoy because I want to make money. I want to make money. I also want to be happy, doing what I'm doing. So it's so important for me to feel self-assured in the decisions that are made, even when it doesn't seem like it's making sense to anybody else. But if it makes me happy, if I can see myself pulling through, then I need to stay the course, stay the course, ride out the wave until everything simmers down again.

Angie Colee (03:20):

Oh my gosh.That, like. Okay. I love everything that you said. And we're going to unpack this a little bit because first I wanted to talk about this obsession with a hundred K because everywhere in make money online and it's, it's make a hundred K a year, make a hundred K a year or make $10,000 a month. There's no difference really. And I struggled with that too. When I first started my business, because that was like my success bar. If I can hit this, I hit it. And then my second year I was like, okay, but what if I was a one trick pony? So I kept the bar at that level of just hit six figure just above six figures a year. And it wasn't until a couple years later that I realized that like, this is an artificial number, this hundred thousand dollar target. Like, I don't even know why I want to hit that other than it's the number that's in my head. Cause everybody's talking about it.

Chima Mmeje  (04:10):

Exactly, exactly, exactly. Like if everybody's talking about it, then it becomes real to you because you, we are inferior. Human beings are social. People are influenced by the things that we are surrounded by. And if everybody around you is defining hundred K and 10 k months as the sign of success. Then you're going to start subconsciously thinking that you need to be hitting those high numbers to call yourself successful. And anything less just seems like failure, even though you're actually doing great.

Angie Colee (04:37):

And are you paying all your monies and you get to go out to have a fancy dinner or buy the things that you like to buy that make you happy or be generous with people like, to me, it's important to be able to help people around me that have a need when I'm able to. Um, and so that's why I keep money in savings. And I also like really fancy food. Like I'm traveling around the states right now. And one of the first things that I do when I get to a new town is find a fancy restaurant that I can sit down to and have like a taster menu from the chef of stuff that I would never think to order for myself. But that's what I earned the money for so that I can go have an adventure. I don't need a Lamborghini. I wouldn't even know how to drive one. If I got into the seat of one, a mansion strikes me as way too much house for me to clean. And I don't like doing the cleaning. So let's keep it small and manageable so that I can actually keep this place clean because I don't like being a slob, but I don't necessarily like cleaning either. I think that that's important. And that's why I kind of keep harping on it. But just knowing what drives you and what makes you happy beyond the money is so like, know what you're doing this for what you're working for, because it's so easy to fall into that trap of chasing the money and never being happy.

Chima Mmeje  (06:00):

Yes, yes, yes. A hundred percent. I agree.

Angie Colee (06:04):

I thought it was funny that you mentioned launch content because my background, I did a lot of launches and for people that are listening that are new to the copywriter marketing world, a launch, let's just say it's big. It's got hundreds and hundreds of pages of emails and sales pages and all of these different assets that have to come together into this big event based promo. And it's usually months and months worth of work. But I do remember coaching newer copywriters who would see that there are people out there charging $20,000 for a launch $50,000 for a launch. How do I get into that? And I'm like be prepared to work your ass off for several months straight. And it was funny how often when I would tell people, okay, this is how you get into launch copy. And I explained the amount of work that goes into it and how this is often like on a time crunch and on some serious deadlines, suddenly people weren't interested in that $50,000 anymore. They didn't want to work that hard. And I totally get that. Um, but yeah, I mean, you have to be careful what you wish for, especially with the money, because exactly like that you could be signing up for too much work. You can be doing happy. You could switch into work that makes you totally unhappy. You could get all the money that you were looking for, but not know what to do with it. Like, yeah. So you said a couple of other interesting things too, and I want to circle back to this, especially that you lost all your clients because of COVID. And I feel like that's, that's a struggle that a lot of us had last year. What was it like going through that for you and how did you come out of it?

Chima Mmeje  (07:46):

Oh man, it was just brutal. Like I, I, I did not expect losing my clients, obviously. Nobody did. You kind of expect, okay. Clients are going to be fine because they keep giving you work but. It just happened to have the space of one week, one week in April and boom. Every, every single one was gone. And it was, it was just hard because I had just come out of a good month in March. And then I went into nothing in April and it took a while for me to just reconcile. Okay, this is where I am. I'm at ground zero. I'm basically back to the bottom and having to like reinvent myself again. And there are several things that came out of that in a good way. Number one was that I realized I was working with businesses that were basically too small, too small businesses. I needed to do working with bigger businesses that could ride the tide, even during a Pandemic that could still stay profitable in the Pandemic to keep sending work, whatever is going on. And I needed to be charging way more money. If I was going to do that and I needed to be better positioned if I was going to be getting those kinds of clients, because I was, I think I was charging 200 bucks for a blog post, then maybe three k would be the good months and I'll be excited. But after that, no clients, I raised my rates. I think I started charging 600 bucks still, no clients went a couple of months without work. And then I started getting traction. All of the hard work I put in, in positioning myself on social media, LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, suddenly instead of paying off, people are taking, taking notes, reaching out. And then I started working with some awesome brands who told awesome brands about me. And I started getting more referrals from copywriters. And then I raised my rates again. I did my first 10K, same year but none of this would have happened if I had not lost all of those clients, who I was only charging rates and who couldn't afford to stay in business because of a Pandemic. It wouldn't have led me to the point where I was raising my rates, where I was seeing that, okay, you're working with businesses that are too small for where you want to be or too small for what you want to be earning. So it was, it was just basically me knowing that I'm doing the right thing by raising my rates, even without any clients seemed like madness and doing the right thing by staying the course because I know I'm good. I know that I'm putting out content. I was consistent on social media, LinkedIn every day, Christian educational content, putting out stuff on my blog. I just needed to wait for everything to get settled. And then as soon as businesses started to stabilize again, they were back out looking for SEO writers and strategies. And I was back in business again, but this time with better clients, more sustainable work, ongoing, the kind of stuff I was basically looking for, I was getting bored. It was just, it just happened on the back of me losing all my clients.

Angie Colee (10:39):

Uh, you're dropping such knowledge bombs. And I feel like I want to highlight everything that you're saying, but I'm going to the big one that you said that like, they don't get to see this video, of course, but like my jaw literally dropped when you said it was, I had to lose all my clients to figure out that this wasn't sustainable. And I think so that's the danger zone for so many freelancers because like they see an event like that and go, I wasn't meant for this, or I'm a failure. And they start, you know, using themselves as punching bags. I'm a failure where as you, you can choose like Chime to see it in a totally different light, like something about this isn't working. And I thought it was really, really smart of you to say, okay, I need to work with people that can survive a downturn like this. Cause downturns are going to happen. None of us saw a Pandemic coming, none of us. And there are going to be things in the future now with a globally connected society that we're still not going to be able to see things coming in the future. But the best thing that you can do is be prepared to ride that out. And if, you know, you want to work with other people that believe that same thing, like I need to be prepared and I need to be able to ride that out for a few months because it's always going to turn around.

Chima Mmeje  (11:53):

Yes, yes. Like that's that ability to stay the course even when everybody's telling you to abandon ship and do something else that is profitable right now is so important. Because if you jump ship every time it gets difficult, you're never going to stick to anything. And am I going to become an authority for anything? It is going to be a generalist. You're never going to make that kind of big money you're trying to make.

Angie Colee (12:18):

Absolutely. And, and I thought that that was smart. That the first thing that instinctively you didn't go to like, oh my God, get as much business in as I can. And kind of swing the pendulum out of desperation toward I'll take anything.

Chima Mmeje  (12:34):

I raise my rates. I raised my rates by three X. And then I was saying no a lot. I said no to a lot of gigs because that's something I've always been very good at knowing my worth and just sticking to rates.

Angie Colee (12:47):

Oh, see, this is beautiful because I say this all the time, too. A lot of my coaching students too, which is just have the courage to say no, not the confidence, the courage. Trust that with 7 billion people on this planet. More than 7 billion people. That if you say no to this one, that there's going to be another opportunity someday. Like this is so good. I'm like over here bounching on my yoga ball chair. And so like, let's talk about raising your price more too, because there's a lot of resistance to that in freelancing and entrepreneurship. So you decided to work with these higher clients and reposition yourself and pivot, like what was the thought process there? How did you arrive at that?

Chima Mmeje  (13:30):

Okay. I did not pivot. In fact, I hated that word. I think that was the worst word that I heard in 2020. Every time I heard the word pivot, I wanted to just drop and back all over that word and then dump it in the den and never bring it out.

Angie Colee (13:44):

Oh you're gonna hate me. I'm probably one of the people responsible for getting pivot out there into the world because I did a launch with pivot in the work. Keep going. We're repositioning. We're not pivoting. There we go.

Chima Mmeje  (13:57):

Yes. Yes. So, um, it was basically me saying, okay, I want to charge more for what I do right now. But if I'm going to charge more, I need to be an authority. People, people will pay more for someone who's an authority and a specialist than who is a generalist. At the time I was writing, I was doing everything. I was writing blog posts, landing pages, website copy. And I cut out landing pages. I cut out website copy. I cut out anything that wasn't related to SEO. And then I changed all of my language online to SEO content writer and strategist. And I stopped creating content that did not need relate to SEO or content strategy. Everything I was saying was about SEO link building, basically stuff that had to do with SEO or content because repetition is how you make people, remember you. And the more you say it, the more you give that useful advice that they can apply immediately the more this year and as authority so that when they reach out, it's not even about that. There's, there's very little friction because they're coming to you and saying, you're my savior. Anything you say goes, that's my, I said, I always want people to have really come to me. I'm in charge. I'm the God just give me your money and rest. So I had to be an authority for that to happen so that when I show them my rate card, before we even jump on the call, it's just about, okay, let's just see she has the chops. I show them I have the chops and cool we're working together. But the first step was building authority. You can't charge, you can't charge the kind of prices that the big guns are charging. If you're not an authority or authority is what makes you sell more, charge more. Specialization was the next thing I wanted to be a specialist in SEO copy. I wanted to people to think SEO copy, content, strategy, topic clusters and think of me. Instead of thinking topic cluser, I started raising my rates, I think in May, June, but I didn't sell the first one until December. So there was like a six month period where I was talking about topic clusters every day on social media, nobody was biting until December. I knew that this was something that I wanted to be doing as a series. And right now it's what I'm doing more. I'm doing more content strategy. Now that I'm writing more. It took me staying the course for six months, even without anybody buying that service to actually get there, it didn't just happen overnight. That's what people fail to see, they fail to see the struggle, they only see the success. And they don't see that there is a waiting period before you get to that spot, they are trying to get to. That waiting period is what I used to build aurothity. So that's how I got to charging what I charge now Raising my rates, I get to a new points in my pricing, and then I jumped the rate again. You get to new points in pricing with my clients. I raise my rates again. So I'm always consistently doing maybe every three months, six months. As soon as I have a full list of clients, I raise my rates again.

Angie Colee (17:02):

I think that is a good strategy too. Um, knowing that when all of your time is taken up with client work, that should be a signal to you that it's time to raise rates. It's time to raise and not just for new clients, but go back to your old clients and say, okay, you know, I've done my annual business review or whatever it is and effective this date, the rates for this are now, and people and people are going to drop out because they can't afford you anymore. But guess what? If they go find someone cheaper who messes it up, they're going to find a way to save the money and come back and work with you because they like you, or you just naturally grow apart because you're too expensive for them.

Chima Mmeje  (17:39):

Yeah. It's not that they're coming back. I remember when I raised my rates in January, nobody, I think only one client stayed and the rest of them left. I wasn't bothered. I had other clients waiting for me. And then I just moved on. I was ready for that because if you're going to raise your rates need to be ready for people who are going to walk away. If you're raising your rates, then you already have people who are coming in that are paying those new rates. So that's giving you like the power, the courage say all clients, I'm sorry, I can't do this anymore. This is why I charge. Now I raise my rates, I think three times on an existing client this year. And every time I keep thinking, they're going to walk away Oh, they just says, okay, okay. Because they see the value. They see the value, what I'm providing for them. So they're not going anywhere. And because of that, it actually gives me the courage to keep doing that. Because as long as they keep saying, yes, I'm waiting for the points where I hit that mark. And then you're like, oh, okay now we're going too far.

Angie Colee (18:40):

Well, and that's a great way to do it too. Like that to me is like an attitude of experimentation versus permission. And I thought that was great that you were talking about. I want to be the authority. I want it to be the authority. Guess what guys, the whole point of this podcast is about giving yourself permission to be that authority. Because so many of us come to this, like waiting for our clients.

Chima Mmeje  (19:03):

Yes, yes. There is nothing like that. I just did my list. I just realized that if we so crazy, I became an authority by changing my LinkedIn updates and saying SEO, content, strategist, and copywriter for SAS. I went to my Twitter I did the same thing. I went to my website. I did the same thing. Every time I went to any podcast, guest posts, anywhere I introduced myself like that. And soon those measures start to build up. Chima Mmeje - SEO, content writer, and content strategist for SaaS and tech companies. Everybody starts to call you that. Yes. That is how you build authority by everybody saying the same thing about you. It's really that simple. And then you back that up with contents, authoritative contents.

Angie Colee (19:46):

Yes. You teach, you share, you give away stuff for free. And then people go, Ooh, like at what she shared just now and just that article. And it was so in-depth, this is way more complicated than I thought it was. I need to hire her. Like, there's two things there that I want to unpack too. One is that people think if they give away all of that content for free, that somehow they're not going to be paid. And actually I think of it as if you give away all of that for free. So if you're not familiar with SEO, that's search engine optimization, which is super valuable. Cause we all know, I don't know about you. I mean, I'm probably a different case because I do a lot of research. I'll go to like page 10 on Google looking for stuff. But most people stop at like page one, two, maybe three. So getting up there in the ranks when, when people are searching for a solution is really important and that's the kind of work that Chime does. Um, and she just claimed it. Like she just decided one day, this is what I do. And like, related to that, the other point that I wanted to make was this idea of especially creatives, who I love talking to. But like guys, just because you have 50 different interests doesn't mean that you have to word vomit at everybody when you first meet them, like, oh yeah, I'm a writer. And I write novels and I write poetry and I write like, that's just way too much. Like bring it, bring it to the table and be like, Hey, you know, I'm a writer. I write SEO content and I do content strategy. Oh, great. That you see how like that's a conversation opener versus a like information dump. So I think that that's really smart again, like I feel like everything I'm saying is you're super smart and you really are. I'm so glad we're talking. But just the fact that you just, you planted that flag in the ground, nobody gave you permission to own that you didn't have to go get certified or earn that you just had to do really good work, which I know you do. And the more you teach, the more you learn. So like this is just a self fulfilling prophecy. I decided to do this. I'm going to share what I know. I'm going to go get clients and then just repeat this, share what I know. Go get clients.

Chima Mmeje  (21:47):

Definitely. Definitely because I was sharing so much content between 2020 and 2021 that people will reach out to me and say, do you have an SEO copywriting course? Do you have a course? Anything I can buy? Because the logic is that it's just giving away all this stuff for free that I can apply. I've had someone who does content marketing for a company, which ultimately I say, Chimethe stuff that you share has helped me my career as a content marketer. And I was just mind blown because that's like a full God damn job and just taking all the stuff I was sharing and she was applying it to her content strategy. So that was just incredible. That was just incredible because that's free information. I share free infographics. I share stuff that I work on a client project and I take an element of clients project and I turn it into content on LinkedIn. And I'm like, okay, this is the new strategy that you can use to build links. This is how you can quickly get your content to Patreon And, um, this is not, this is what you should not be doing. Like it, this is a mistake I'm seeing on a marketing or content and people are just take that and then apply it. And it's immediate. So that's practical tips that anybody can go and apply is so important. That is how I built authority. And then I take that content and I put it on Twitter. I put it on Facebook. I repackage it as infographics. I share it maybe on Pinterest or somewhere else. I'm basically making sure that everywhere my target audience might be, I'm going to be there with content for them.

Angie Colee (23:22):

Nice. And I love that. Cause it's, it's almost like a little mini preview of what it's going to be like to work with you too, because you're giving them something that's valuable that they can actually use they're going back and applying it to their business and getting real results. Like, and when I say results guys, I mean like sales, this results in more money, this like more leads, more attraction. And like there's always going to be, this is a little bit more advanced business strategy than I think most freelancers are aware of, but there are always going to be people at different levels of comfort with the things that you teach. So there are going to be some people that like, they just want the free content and they're going to invest all their time and like reverse engineering this and putting it together on their own because they really like figuring stuff out. You know what I mean? Then there's going to be like a certain group in the middle. That's like, I'm missing pieces and I'm too impatient to figure it out. So do you have a course? Like, can you walk me through this step-by-step and then there's going to be a tier. And like, as I'm breaking out these tiers, I'm talking about the people we're going from people that pay the least to people that pay the most. So then the next tier up is probably like done with me. Okay. I think I have a handle on this, but I really want you to like confirm that I'm understanding this. So like, can you coach me? So that's the next step up and then done for me, which is the highest level is like they get direct access to you. They get your time, which is the only limited resource that you really have. You can't make more time. So if they work directly with you, that costs money. And I love that because there's always going to be people anywhere along that spectrum of like, they just want you to share the information. They're going to figure it out. They're not going to work with you, but they're going to know your name. And when someone asks them, who do you know that's good at this? They're going to re because they've been using your work, they're going to refer you because your name is out there. You're the authority. Then they're going to people that want to learn from you as a paid course, and then go take it and do whatever. Then there are people that are going to want to do the work and get your validation on their work, which is fantastic.

Chima Mmeje  (25:24):

Everything you say is actually how my out reach looks like. Like I have people that just want free stuff. And then I can direct them to free guides or stuff that I've created. And you can just consume that. I have people that wants to buy my topic authority course. And then I direct them to my website. They buy the course and they get one hour of my time so that when they finished and they created a first post, I can review it and say, okay, you're doing this wrong. You're doing this wrong. This is what you should be doing. I have people that want me to do the strategy for them so that they can go right to the content by themselves. And I also have people that want me to do the strategy and writes the content. So it's all this day. As what? At every point, I provide a service that will be affordable for anybody. If it's free, you want cool. If you want a post cool, if you want the strategy, cool. If you want the strategy and execution and on-page optimization, cool, whatever you need, I've got a plan for you. That is how service provider should always be, should always be accessible to people. So they even if they don't have big bucks to spend. At least they can get something of value from you.

Angie Colee (26:27):

Oh, that's so brilliant too. Cause I think that's where a lot of freelancers shoot themselves in the foot. Especially when they fixate on that hundred K, $10,000 a month, $50,000 a month. They start thinking of people as like cash cows or like I can go to the bank and push a couple buttons and get this money out. And if I can't get this money out of them, there's no value there. Look, most of the time, these people, this is a relationship basis. You can treat them like on-demand money. You've just got to show up and, and deliver that value, deliver that, training, that content, and then have different tiers. Like we've been talking about. Some people are never going to spend more than a hundred bucks with you. Some people are going to start with like 50 or a hundred and then go, oh, this is too hard. I don't like doing it. Will you please just do it for me? Oh, well it costs like 10 times that I don't care. I just don't want to do this. Please do this for me. Um, and then, you know, so not turning down the a hundred dollars customer because they can't pay a hundred thousand is really, really smart. Cause that hundred dollars customer could still be connected to a $10,000 customer. Like they're still good relationships to have. So don't just look at somebody and evaluate them on a monetary scale. It's like, I know that I had a contractor that when I first started, I couldn't afford to pay them much. And we kept my rate at what I could afford, but I was so blown away by what they did for me, that every time somebody asked about this, I referred them out. I must have sent $50,000 worth of business that first year, like so much that when I went, I went on a Disney vacation with my family. They surprised me with like a little, a special party thing at Disney. Like just to say, Hey, thanks for sending so much money my way, like they could have cut me if they saw me as some sort of cheapskate, like she's only capped at this much, but they saw that value. Like I found another way to pay them basically.

Chima Mmeje  (28:14):

Yes, definitely. I want to touch on that part of relationship building, because this is what's okay. This year has been what I'm calling the year of referrals. Like 90% of the work I've gotten this year has been from people, referring clients to me, basically other freelancers, copywriters, SEO's, people just referring stuff to me. And that's because I have dedicated time to building genuine relationships. If I, if I like someone, I just climb into their inbox and I'm like, oh my God, I love the content you share. I love the stuff you're doing. You're awesome. And we just get talking, we get talking and I do this thing every month where I jump on calls with like women, I really admire. And then we'll just talk about stuff. We talk about drinks. We don't talk about work because everybody's, everybody's busy with work Monday through Friday. So I want when you're talking with me. We're just talking about random stuff. Okay. What kind of stuff do you like to cook with? Share recipes. We talk about this stuff or watching on TV. That is how you actually build relationship by not talking about work stuff. And then at end of the call, there's like comradery, like a connection. Every time they think of you, they smile. They are happy. And you're going to come to their mind faster. When somebody needs the service, you offer they'll be so excited to refer you because they just want to do something nice for you. And it's because I've used that relationship with them. But that relationship doesn't just happen by cold messaging. Somebody in that, by talking with somebody to get it to them as a person, not a professional. Now, a person with interests outside of work.

Angie Colee (29:50):

And that's great too. Yeah. Like, because people like working with people they like.

Chima Mmeje  (29:56):

Yes. It's so strange because I don't have SEO conversations with these people but it leads to SEO work because they like me as a person. And it delights me as a person. Then that means that when we're working together, the flow is just going to be, the chemistry is going to be seen and they are going to enjoy the relationship. And they don't want it to end. That's because we already have a relationship before we started working together. And that takes time. You have to be intentional about building relationships, not just with people you think are going to be clients, but with people who are in the industry too, who do the same thing as you do, don't see them as competition. See them as people who can refer stuff to you, people who can help you out mentor you. Like there's just so much, you can get out of a relationship that goes beyond money and clients.

Angie Colee (30:43):

And I say like, like kind of like those extending poles, this is probably going to be like a very weird attempt at a metaphor, but you know how they're kind of nested in and then you extend them and it's like the skinny part and then a little thicker and a little thicker. I'm like demonstrating on video. And nobody listening to this is going to see what I'm saying. A telescoping pole that's. So you've got like the skinniest piece on the inside and the thickest outside. So like, if you think about putting this telescope face down on the table and just pulling the top up, that's almost like it happens in business in my experience too, like you're going to build relationships. And as these people grow, they're going to move up and they're going to pull up people underneath them who are going to pull up people underneath them who are going to pull up. And like the pie just gets bigger. The more people are involved. And I love that. Like, there's more opportunity than ever before these people are definitely not your competition. They're your colleagues. Cause look, look, every time somebody, every time I'm booked on a launch, cause I can't work for 7 billion people. Right? And they come to me and they want me to write a launch and I say, I'm not available, but I know this person, let me introduce you to this person and this person, I think you'll like them. I think you'll get along. You and I have geeked out over like foodie spots to go to. And this is another foodie that I know that happens to be in LA. And it's like a great way to connect people. Like you said over, not work over shared interests so that we can be friends together.

Chima Mmeje  (32:14):

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Angie Colee (32:17):

Yeah. Cause like I geek out over the work. Don't get me wrong. I could talk about this all day, all night long. But I also have other things that I geek out about. Like if you've ever the infamous, uh, Jack Skellington hoodie that I have, because I'm a big Disney nerd. So I'm usually always wearing this. I'mcovered in tattoos. Love food, love, travel have kinds of crazy stories from my time on stage with rock bands. And those are the things that my clients actually like about me. There are going to be a lot of people out there too that thinks that I'm crazy and irresponsible. And they don't like that. I swear. And they don't like that. I'm a rocker and that's totally fine because yeah, I like that too. I don't like them either. It's fine. Um, I'll just refer them to somebody else. That's a little bit more of their flavor. It's fine. Some people like vanilla and some people like chai spice. It's fine. Some people like it jalapeno hot. Some people like it really bland. I'm going to be a little bit salty. Let's get into the food metaphors. I'm just totally derailing this podcast. Don't mind me. Oh man, this is getting so good. Like I just love that. And you said right now with doing what you're doing, that you're happy doing this. What is it about the SEO work that you love?

Chima Mmeje  (33:34):

I think I, this year I set out intentionally to cut back on writing and do more strategy because I don't know, I'm just getting worn down because writing, I still love writing and I write for the right price, but I, I like strategy. I like doing the research and then turning it into a cluster, saying this goes here, this goes here and just making that cluster so beautiful, like a child and then handing it over to the client and say, here is a baby. And go introduce it to the world. I just love that strategy work. I love the strategy work. That's like the best part of SEO for me. Taking topic and turning into like a city of contents and then delivering it to the clients to just get result leads. I love all that stuff. That's the best part for me.

Angie Colee (34:19):

I thought that's so great. And I find that a lot of creative people start at like at first it's just a dream to get paid, to write. Right. But eventually you get, you, you figure out your stride or you quit. But if you figure out your stride, you get so much work eventually that you probably want to try something else. Like, I really don't know people that started copywriting when I started that are really still doing it. Most of us have gone to strategy or other businesses.

Chima Mmeje  (34:45):

Yes. Definitely. Definitely. Like I got the idea of the strategy. I remember there was a post on the corporate task job and this dude. I forgotten his name in the comment section was talking about how he meets more money doing strategy than copywriting. And I was like hmm, interesting. Okay. Maybe this is something that I could do. There was a, I often don't just write the content of the strategy works, see how I make my money. And that's always gold. Move from writing copy to doing more for your clients.

Angie Colee (35:13):

Yeah. And I do the same thing cause I love strategy. I geek out over that stuff too. And then since I special ed my, I guess my specialty in strategy would be like, I like to find this simplest possible promotion that I can build something that I know that is going to work because precisely because it's not overly complicated, just like everything in the world is like, we're, we're so bombarded with messaging every day that when something is like clear, simple and direct people go, wait, what? Wait, what, what was that? Okay. I like that I'm leaning in I'm paying attention. Um, and it was astonishing to me to figure out that other people don't think that way, like it was a real light bulb moment to recognize that, I guess in the hustle culture, I thought it was all about producing and spinning.

Chima Mmeje  (36:05):

I hate hustle culture.

Angie Colee (36:06):

Yes. Me too. Like I'm pro hustle. I'm anti grind. If that makes sense. Like I I'm okay with somebody hustling to get work, but I don't think that you need to work yourself to death. I think you gotta hustle.

Chima Mmeje  (36:19):

Yes. Yes. Definitely. Definitely. People glorifying working too hard. Like it's supposed to be something beautiful. No, it's not.

Angie Colee (36:28):

There's no bonus points for being the hardest working son of a bitch out there. There really isn't. There's no award they don't have Oscars for you guys. Sorry that you're being martyrs for the I work. So I work so much harder than everybody else. Well, you know what I do, I travel in and I jump off mountains and I go to Disney world and I enjoy the shit out of my life.

Chima Mmeje  (36:47):

That's the goal. That's the goal. Make the money and do it smartly. So you have time to enjoy all the interests like,

Angie Colee (36:55):

And I'm not a millionaire. Maybe someday I will be who knows, but that's okay.

Chima Mmeje  (36:58):

I don't even think being a millionaire is the goal. Enjoying life, making enough money that you have enough in the bank for emergencies. Giving your kids the best if you have kids like just having enough to live a luxury life, you don't have to be a millionaire to do that.

Angie Colee (37:14):

Yes, I think that's a good distinction too, because that's another one of those numbers that we like hang our hats on, but I just want to be comfortable. I want to know that I can handle an emergency. If one comes up, I don't want any, if my car blows a tire that doesn't need to turn my life upside down, I just go to the dealership and get that fixed and then go, oh, that was annoying. But it wasn't emergency. It was annoying. Hmm. So good. I could talk to you about all of this all day, but I want to get a chance for you to share your brilliance with people. So why don't you tell us a little bit more about where they can find you online?

Chima Mmeje  (37:52):

Yeah. I'm you can find me on my website, zenithcopy.com or LinkedIn with my name: Chima Mmeje.

Angie Colee (38:00):

Okay, fantastic. And I'm going to make sure that they have clickable links in the show notes so that it's easy to find and stalk you or hire you for all the SEO stuff. Awesome. Thank you so much for being on the show. It was such good ranting.

Chima Mmeje  (38:14):

Yes. This was so good. This was, I love, I love, I love podcasts like this. I swing for my land. Nobody's ready for from this and say, Ooh, what is this? Okay. How do you do this? Or how many results are you getting from this?

Angie Colee (38:25):

Like the X, X steps to get you Y results. Like I don't give a damn, just tell me your story. I want to hear how you got where you are and all of that brilliance. That's where I think the secret sauce is really. Thank you so much for sharing that story with us. I appreciate the hell out of you and we'll, we'll have to do this again.

Chima Mmeje  (38:46):

Definitely. Angie, thank you so much for having me.

Angie Colee (38:51):

So that is it. Another awesome episode of Permission to Kick Ass on the books. If you want to know more about the show or if you want to know more about me, Angie Colee and the mission I'm on to help entrepreneurs punch fear in the face and do big bold things, then head on over to permissiontokickass.com. That is all one word together, permissiontokickass.com. Make sure to sign up for my email list so that you know whenever there's a hot, fresh and ready podcast episode out for you. And also on Mondays, I like to send out a little newsletter called Kick Monday's Ass. I'm sure you're totally, totally surprised by that. So thank you for being here with me today. I'm Angie Colee. Make sure that you share this with a friend that needs to hear this message today. Like it, share it. Comment wherever you're listening to this today and let's go kick some ass.