Permission to Kick Ass

59: Maggie Karshner

Episode Summary

Maggie Karshner, my new friend and today’s guest, has built a business to help others bust through their fear and find freedom in self-employment. And what I love even more than her mission is the philosophy behind her methods. Maggie uses her own experiences overcoming a needle phobia to help her clients navigate all the “dangers” of entrepreneurship. If you’ve ever struggled with fear in your biz, this one’s for you.

Episode Notes

Fear is a dirty rotten liar… especially for entrepreneurs. And to deal with a liar you gotta call them out. That’s exactly what Maggie and I are doing in this episode. We take the fear-based myths of entrepreneurship and (lovingly) kick its ass out of your way. Prepare to feel liberated from the BS fear has been feeding you. Listen now!

Can’t-Miss Moments From This Episode:

This one is jam-packed full of advice. Don’t miss out - listen now!

Maggie’s Bio:

Maggie Karshner is a self-employment coach based in Seattle, WA serving solo-preneurs throughout the USA. Maggie is not going to tell you how it "should" be done (though she will share how she commonly sees people solve similar problems.) She wants to hear about your goals and help you achieve what's important to you. Maggie is widely versed in all things relevant to self-employment. The organizational, structure, financials, management, marketing and promotion are all of her favorite things! And she loves working with independent thinkers who want to create an awesome job for themselves.   

Maggie launched her business coaching practice in 2014. Prior to that she had already acquired ten year's industry experience encompassing managing a small business, supporting non-profits, and corporate business consulting. She has a BA in Geography from Syracuse University. She is an entrepreneur herself twice over, in addition to working closely with entrepreneurs throughout her career. 

Resources and links mentioned:

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Episode Transcription

Angie Colee (00:01):

Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass. A podcast about leaving self-doubt in the dust, punching fear in the face and taking bold action toward your biggest dreams. I'm Angie Colee, and let's get to it. Hey and welcome back to Permission to Kick Ass. With me today is my new friend Maggie Karshner. Say hi.

Maggie Karshner (00:26):


Angie Colee (00:27):

Hey. Oh, I'm so excited about this episode. We were talking a little bit in advance about, uh, some of the goodies we were gonna get into, but first tell us a little bit about you and what you do.

Maggie Karshner (00:37):

Yeah, so I'm a self-employment coach I'm based in Seattle, Washington. Uh, and I, I help people turn their passions into viable businesses.

Angie Colee (00:45):

Oh, I freaking love that we have so many similarities there. Um, I, I call myself a confidence coach, cuz I feel like a lot of people that are creative, especially need that like boost of confidence to overcome that hump into, but I don't know business.

Maggie Karshner (00:59):

Oh yeah, yeah, no. I come in with like all the skills and all and, and help people, uh, learn how to do the business side. So yeah, I work with a ton of creative folks and, and people who are passionate about what they do. And then I come in with the, the business side.

Angie Colee (01:13):

That's amazing. See if you are a creative person, a painter, a writer, an artist, a baker, whatever, listening to this, you've got multiple resources to help you understand the business business side of things. No excuses. We we're here for you. We got you. You can figure this out. Um, before we were, before we started recording, we were talking about your interesting approach. Like something that you've learned from your personal life that helps you face business challenges. You wanna tell us a little bit more about that?

Maggie Karshner (01:42):

Yeah, totally. So, um, I have a phobia of, well, I have a phobia and so I use a lot that I've learned to interface with my phobia in helping my clients navigate the fears and anxieties that come with launching a business. Um, and so my phobia is actually a of needles it's of like getting injections. So, you know, it's been a, a rough couple years for me, um, knowing that a vaccine was gonna come and being very excited to get it. And I'm very in favor of vaccination. Science is real. I think it's, I think it's good stuff. Um, but absolutely terrified of the delivery mechanism. Um, you know, yeah. It was a, it was a rough two years. So, um, and now I, I have been vaccinated because I have, you know, sort of looked down into the void and found, um, a way through it, across it. Um, the phobia doesn't go away. I think that's one of the key things to understand about fears and anxieties is that it's probably not gonna completely go away and it becomes a lot more manageable when we have a path through it when we understand what it is and we can navigate that, um, and basically do it anyway.

Angie Colee (03:00):

Yeah. I find that so interesting because I think a lot of the times and that, and that was a big part of the reason that I started this podcast to begin with was we feel like fear is just this like one battle with the dragon. And once the dragon is conquered, it's smooth sailing.

Maggie Karshner (03:18):

Oh yeah.

Angie Colee (03:19):

So the, the dragon comes back because you go to a new land with new problems and there's a new dragon guarding the gate there. And, and so part of being in business is kind of fighting battles and hearing myself say that out loud, uh, it sounds a little bit discouraging, but I mean, to me, I would rather fight that fight and trust myself to, to deal with the dragon, uh, and maybe go on a dragon ride. Maybe I'll befriend the dragon instead of defeat them. Uh, versus working in somebody else's business and feeling like I was meant for more than being a, a, a cog in wheel.

Maggie Karshner (03:55):

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like there's a, like to use your dragon analogy. It's like, you know, I could be fighting my own dragon or I could be like the damsel in the tower having my employer fight the dragon, which I've never liked that position. Um, call me a control freak, but I like to, you know, fight my own battles. So, um, yeah. So I think it's, it's this wonderful choice that comes from entrepreneurship that you get to, um, you get to, I mean, this is a, a way of growing. Like it's not just that we're fighting dragons here, but we are, we are embarking on certain types of growth. Um, and I think, I mean, that's why I do this because I, I love learning new things and concrete, new challenges and just continuing to grow. Cause I think that's what we're here for.

Angie Colee (04:42):

I, I absolutely agree. That's what we're here for. And I think it's interesting that you talked about like, I call me a control freak, but I like fighting my own battles. You know, I'm gonna, I'm going to challenge other people in the audience to take that stance too. Especially if they feel a little bit safer with somebody else fighting those battles, like nobody's gonna care about saving your own ass more than you. So yeah. Like,

Maggie Karshner (05:05):


Angie Colee (05:06):

Get out there and fight like, hell if nothing else, the pandemic showed how quickly things can change. Even if you are a star, a level employee who has been there for 20 years and they freaking love you. Well, if the building is closed and shuttered, they're still not gonna be able to, to afford to keep you. And that's nobody's fault except maybe yours cuz you didn't go find something else.

Maggie Karshner (05:29):

Yeah. Well, and I think there's this, um, myth in like when people are comparing and contrasting self-employment from employed work, you know, that there's security that comes from employment that having an employer means you've got a, you gotta paycheck, every pay period. And it's very steady and yeah, there's, there's a certain steadiness to that and it's all your eggs in one basket. If that job goes away, then the job goes away and now you have no income. Whereas, you know, in my experience of, you know, the, the early shutdown in the pandemic, it was definitely terrifying because it is between me and my clients, whether or not I have a business. And you know, a lot of folks were scared and were canceling sessions and things like that. But, um, I didn't go from, you know, full income to zero. I got it cut like maybe in half and then the PPP loan kicked in and then like, you know, I had other resources, new people came out of the woodwork because the whole landscape just shifted. And so 2020 was actually one of my best years in business. Um, because there was so much need for a change, which I could not have anticipated it in that initial shutdown. So I think it's important to keep in mind that security is something that we create for ourselves.

Angie Colee (06:45):


Maggie Karshner (06:45):

And so if having a story that your employer is, the source of security is helpful for you. Great. And you can have a different story of security. My story of security is that I have, you know, couple dozen clients who see me on the regular and not all of them are gonna leave at the same time. So that's where my sense of security comes from.

Angie Colee (07:07):

I love that too. And you know, I wanna point out something that I thought you said that is like super brilliant that the pandemic was your best year. Was it your best year are one of your best years?

Maggie Karshner (07:19):

Oh, probably my best year.

Angie Colee (07:21):

Yeah. And I've, I've actually heard that from a lot of business owners. That's not to make light of, you know, the, the terrible plight of restaurant owners and venue owners and people that really struggled when things shut down. But then there's this whole other sector that came online, realized that work could be done online, that we could find effective ways to communicate with one another, with a strong wifi connection. And there were entire industries that were born and, or started booming during the pandemic. So you, you know, I, I don't wanna be all like Susie sunshine and make light of the pandemic. Cause obviously it was a terrible, terrible thing all around, but some good thing came out of that. And so if you've got tunnel vision in either like the Suzy Pollyanna side, um, or that everything sucks and is going to hell side, you're kind of missing the bigger picture and shutting out the opportunities that are there, I think.

Maggie Karshner (08:13):

Yeah. Yeah, totally. It's it's about being sort of present in the moment and not stuck in, oh, well this is good. Oh, well this is bad. But just like, this is what is, what can we do with this? What does this inspire us to do from here?

Angie Colee (08:27):

Yeah. Cause I remember those first two weeks, that was where, you know, it was kind of like terror alert, orange there, everybody or red everybody's freaking out everybody's home. We don't know what the hell's going. And I, I made a joke like right before the shutdowns happens that if Disney world goes, everybody's going with them and then Disney world literally shut down during this event that I was at, yes. Like 24 hours after I said that Disney world announced they were closing. I was like shit.

Maggie Karshner (08:57):

That was prophetic

Angie Colee (08:58):

I know. That was weird. Um, and then I remember for those two weeks, everybody's like, what's happening? What's going on? How long is this gonna last? Oh my God. Freaking out. And then one of the business leaders that I really admire, somebody I consider to be a mentor was like, everybody's at home bored on the internet and there's only so much Netflix. They can watch, what can we help them with right now? And that just completely opened my eyes to like, oh shit, there's an opportunity here. Even among the struggles, what can I do to help? And then taking that focus, what can I do to help? And it wasn't even like, what can I do to make money right now? What can I do to help? How can I provide value to people that are struggling right now? And suddenly there's a whole new arm of the business developing out of that.

Maggie Karshner (09:41):

Exactly. And that's, that's the crux of like a business idea, right. Is that people have a need and you're hoping to, to meet that need. So it's just about keeping your eyes open for what those needs are and making sure that you're pursuing ones that, you know, you're actually really uniquely capable of achieving. Um, but yeah, like it's a moving target. And I think when, you know, when we look at businesses of any size and when they fail a lot of times, it's because they're not moving with the market. Um, you know, the there's been a shift that they're not, um, capturing capitalizing on.

Angie Colee (10:17):

Yeah. And I, I would hazard a guess to say that some of the folks that struggled with the shutdowns, uh, didn't see an opportunity to pivot. Cuz I know there was one, there was like a taco stand in LA that I thought of as my, my heroes cuz you know, they run a physical restaurant. So obviously they're stocked up on toilet paper. And if you can't all the way back to the beginning of the pandemic, because it feels like 40 years ago, first of all, I'm with you.

Maggie Karshner (10:43):

Yeah. Seriously.

Angie Colee (10:44):

Second of all, there was a toilet paper, uh, hoarding situation that made, uh, toilet paper in short supply in a lot of places. So this taco place that was fully stocked up on toilet paper and food that was gonna go to waste since nobody was coming out to eat created these family packs of like fajita and taco trays that would create, you know, I don't know how many meals plus a, uh, I think like a carton, 18 pack or something of eggs so that you could make your leftovers into breakfast tacos, plus a couple of packages of toilet paper for all the, for all the Mexican food you were about to eat. And I was like, okay, so here is somebody that had the same struggles as all of the other restaurant operators out there that just went okay, how do we fix this instead of all right. Doom and gloom hair on fire, what the hell do I do now? They just, they immediately turned around and went to the neighborhood and said, well y'all need toilet paper and tacos. So who's down.

Maggie Karshner (11:41):

Yeah, no, that's brilliant. That's an awesome story.

Angie Colee (11:45):

And I love looking for examples of that, especially when it feels like, you know, everything's hopeless. I, I always do my best to like balance the scales and not go too far in one direction or the other. Cause I think being honest with ourselves and not lying to ourselves about where we're at in business is kind of the key to staying flexible and spotting those opportunities. Like you pointed out, what do you, what do you think about that?

Maggie Karshner (12:06):

Yeah. Know exactly. It's all about, yeah. That sort of readiness factor like that. You're ready to, to jump if some thing comes, but you're not. Um, I think of it as like kind of overlapping with, um, I've heard it described that uh, like anxiety is being stuck in the future and depression is being stuck in the past. And so I think of it that way, right? Like if we're too stuck in the past or too stuck in the future, we're too worried about, um, so something, or if we're too just depressed that it's not gonna happen, then we're not actually doing both of those are states of not being in the present and not, um, not a place of action. It's actually a place of inaction. So how do we stay in this present place? Um, and, and deal with the, the truth of the matter, which has, you know, success stories like the, the taco stand and, and has, you know, not the opposite, like, you know, event spaces and, and coffee shops and restaurants that are really, really struggling. Both of these are true. And if we can look at stuff that is true, um, and address it, then, then we're working in, in reality. And we can actually like help our fellow humans.

Angie Colee (13:17):

Oh yeah. I love that. And I, you know, I love that. I don't know if it's like an analogy or saying, I'm thinking on the fly here, but anxiety is living in the future and depression is living in the past. That just kind of hit me like a gut punch that so many of our struggles as human beings and as entrepreneurs stem, um, not being right here where we're at and focusing on what I can do right now in this moment.

Maggie Karshner (13:40):

Yeah. Yeah. It's um, you know, I borrow a lot from Buddhism when it comes to business, because I think that there is so much, and, and this, this actually dovetails with what I was saying earlier about, um, uh, about phobia and my, with that, that there is a certain amount of pain in life. And then there's this other thing that is suffering. So if we can't change the pain, but we can have influence over the suffering cuz that's something that we're experiencing. So, you know, if, if I have to have, uh, an injection, then I'm gonna have like, there's a certain, you know, pin prick pain that comes with that. And then there's all the suffering that my phobia puts on top of it. That's the stuff I have control over. I can't actually make the injection go away. Um, and I think that's similar to this concept of, um, you know, depression, anxiety and being in the present moment, right? Like if you're, um, if you're Mary SunShine Everything or if you're like, that's a certain type of suffering because you're divorcing yourself from the truth. And if you're on the opposite side, you're playing Eeyore, all the time, then you're, you're equally divorcing yourself from the truth and causing more suffering. So the, the truth of what is, is one of the hardest things to see, um, because it lays bare all of the pain that we don't want to experience, but if we can sit with that, then we're sitting in our power, then we have choice and agency and control over the situation. And so we can reduce that suffering that we're laying on top of it.

Angie Colee (15:12):

I love that. And I, I, I wanna say that, you know, none of this is to make you feel bad if you are suffering from clinical depression, if you've had some sort of trauma or anything like that. I, I mean, my heart goes out to you. If you're listening to this and you don't know if you're gonna be able to brush your teeth today, Hey, you know, take a nap, hug yourself extra tight from me, depression fricking sucks. And it also fricking lies.

Maggie Karshner (15:38):

Yeah, it's a lie. Um, I, I actually have depression myself. I mean, I'm in remission at this point, I suppose, but, um, but yeah, there, you know, there's, there's a place for clinical help, definitely get that. Um, it's not a failure. We all need help. I see a therapist on the regular love her. Um, and part of why that's not a good place to be is because of what we're talking about. Right. So like if we have some capacity to, um, find help get solutions that that might make things better, please, please do.

Angie Colee (16:13):

I love that. You know, I think there's this, this pervasive myth in entrepreneurship, especially freelancers and, and more creative endeavors that like you have to figure out this stuff and, and do a certain amount of things on your own to get some, I don't know, invisible street cred and have the other entrepreneurs respect you, but you know, you could reduce that suffering a lot.

Maggie Karshner (16:38):


Angie Colee (16:38):

Just reaching out to your network and seeing who can help you with what, and if they, you know, sometimes all they can do is point you to a research where a resource where you can go do some research and learn more on your own, but sometimes they can step in and fix something for you that you would've struggled for six months to figure out on your own. And then you're off and running again.

Maggie Karshner (16:57):

No, no person is an island. Like that's definitely one of the myths. And I think our like mainstream culture likes to sort of celebrate that idea of entrepreneurship where it's like, you did it all yourself, yourself made man or whatever that story is. And that's, that's not true. Like there's just, there's aspect of that is that is true. Humans are we're pack animals. We live in societies. We, we, we have governments that, that, you know, protect and provide for us in certain ways. Like we are dependent upon other people every step of the way. So that's, that's a lie. Um, and so if you, you know, if you need the help of a mental health therapist, if you want the help of a business coach, like, like this is what we're here for, this is, we are meant to be supporting each other and it's not some kind of failure. And it's not like some, you know, like what you said about street cred really resonated with me, like being a business coach myself, and like remembering when I was starting my business and being like, oh, but I don't have the credentials I have, who's gonna believe me. I've been in business for one month. And the thing was is that I still have value. I still have help that I can offer. I have, um, even just that outside perspective is so impactful. Um, and I say that for other people, but I also say that like for myself, like having my trusted advisors in my life, who can look at my business from the outside and say, oh, wait, it's right here. It's right in front of your face. You don't see it, but this is the thing you need to see, um, has been so vital.

Angie Colee (18:31):

You know, I, it, there's this recurring theme that's happening in my life lately, ever since one of my super smart friends said this, his name is, is Chris Orzechowski. And I've interviewed him on the show before, but he wrote an email recently where he said, you can't see the label from inside the bottle. And it just keeps coming up like over the last months. And I think that's the exact, like when you are in it, you can't see outside to see if there's like a, a clear path or a better way to do something, because you're just so overwhelmed with everything that's happening around you and, and getting some breathing room. But somebody that's outside that bottle, you're stuck in, can point you in the right direction. And reduce that suffering again, like I love that you make that distinction between pain and suffering, suffering is something that we can influence and control to a certain extent, whereas that pain is just it's gonna happen as part of life.

Maggie Karshner (19:22):

Yeah. Yeah. And I think what you're saying about like the, the bottle in the label is also true. True, right? Like there's the truth is that we can't ever or see that, that label. Um, and it's so funny that you bring that up. Cuz my, my best friend and I, um, part of what sort of forged our friendship was our ability to be like, you know, like, you know, we just talk about our problems or whatever, and the other person would be like, oh, well it's like, you were just telling me last week, you need to do X, Y, and Z. And it's like, you know, I would never even remember that. I said that and like, same for her. Like, we'd be spouting off the things we told each other, you know, a week or two ago. And it's like, you're really smart. No, that was you. Okay. I'm really smart. Fine. Yes. Both of these things are true.

Angie Colee (20:04):

Isn't that the beauty of friendship like it? Oh God, it makes me so mad when I, I, I will give someone some advice and it really helped them, and then I struggle with that same problem a few weeks later. And they're like, so remember when you told me X and I'm like, oh, you bastard, why are you so right right now? This sucks. I, I say that with my life coach all the time and he's helped me get past a lot of these fear blocks too, when, um, you know, he'll turn around some of my logic and, you know, I think this is important thing to note too about, uh, getting help, because I think that provides perspective because your thoughts when you're, when you're alone inside your head can just like loop on themselves and suddenly like go down this rabbit hole where you're kind of twisting the logic around. And it really just reinforces the fears. And I, and like sometimes I hear myself say stuff out loud to my life coach, this fear that's been tripping me up for the past week. And he'll ask me a question in response and I'll go like, oh, you bastard, when you put it that way, it sounds really dumb. And then I, usually my way of coping with my fears is usually to have someone reflect it back at me that I'm being kind of ridiculous and overly anxious right now. And you know, there is a way you are strong and capable and you will figure this out and you've got resources. Now go figure it out, take a nap if you need to cry, if you need to, but you've got this and then I go. Right. Okay. Yes.

Maggie Karshner (21:28):

Yeah. And that, that confidence that like what you just described, there is a type of what I call practice. So when I was, um, go like learning how to deal with my phobia, one of the fundamental components was practicing, which, um, it's, it's kind of similar to like, if you were, you know, throwing a play or something and you gotta rehearse, right? Like they were literally rehearsals. So we would go through since I have, um, an injection phobia. And since I was working with the dental fears clinic at the university of Washington, um, we would do rehearsals of Novacaine injections. And these were, these are categorically, not my favorite thing ever. Um, like not gonna lie. This is not me recounting a fun story. Um, and so we would, we would practice. And so like, we'd go through the process of getting injection without a needle ever touching me. Like the first, the first round of rehearsals was the needle literally had its protective cap on and never touched me at all. They just went through the process. We count like how long it would take. And like, we just, we practiced it. And that is so key because then you have, um, you have an experience that you can draw from and say, well, if I can do that, then I can do this next step. And that's happening that when I reapply this in my life for other things that give me fear and anxiety, I do as well is I say, okay, what are past examples of things that I have done that are all similar to this? So I also had a fear of, um, performing choreographed dance kinda thought specific. But so I took the, the stuff that I had learned from the dental fears clinic. And I said, okay, I can, I can do improvisational dance. Um, I've, I've been a, a blues dancer for many years. I can do that. You can put me with a partner. We're fantastic. I can lead. I can follow. Everything's fine. And then, but I, but like the, the, the part where you put the stuff together in a sequence and have to remember it and I'm like, well, but I can do that. Like when I was a kid, I karate, we would do Kas we'd, you know, do the moves in a certain pattern. I could remember that, like this isn't, I don't have a memory problem. Right. And so I built, I set up situations to practice. So I joined a flash mob. You know, something where I'm one of many, there is a routine you have to learn, but there's, and you do have to perform it, but there's not really anybody watching you. Right. It's not quite a stage. It's more like the mob. So you don't have to do it good. Right. And it's pretty easy because the person who's organizing it is probably put it together to make it pretty easy that anybody can do it. So I did a flash mob and then I did, um, you know, a, a, a performance troupe that was very beginner level. And then, you know, I learned that routine and then I performed it and then, and then this guy was limited. It like really opened up because I had all these instances of practice and I could say, well, this is only a little bit harder than the thing I've already done. That was fine. Um, and so having those moments of practice of being able to say, you know, here's instances in my past, and sometimes I can pull this off by just like mentally putting a highlighter to experiences I've had in the past. Um, like, uh, for example, going on podcasts

Angie Colee (24:47):

Was this something that made you anxious?

Maggie Karshner (24:49):

No, not well, not today, but

Angie Colee (24:52):

I would've never known. I never, would've known you have been like a total champ at this.

Maggie Karshner (24:57):

I, I fake it till you make it. I do pretty good at that. And part of it is at this point, it's old hat. I have practiced so much that there is nothing to be anxious about, but like six months ago I had only ever been on one podcast, but I had done public speaking. I had been a guest on a TV show. Like there was other stuff that I could draw from and say, okay, this is different. And it's kind of the same. So can I have just one moment of practice? Can I convince one podcast show or podcast host to put me on this show? Cool. Great. How was that? Was it terrible? No, it was kind of like all those other experiences, just a little bit different. Cool. Let's go do that some more. And now, you know, I've, I've done this enough that I'm like, oh yeah, no, this is fine. This is old hat. This is, this is approaching boring, which is actually what, um, the dental fears clinic that was sort of their threshold was like, you know, have we done this rehearsal enough that it got boring? Cool. Then we need to up the ante because boring is a good ins, uh, indicator that it's no longer a challenge.

Angie Colee (26:02):

Ooh. I love that. Like, if this is routine, if this is old hat, if you are bored by this thing, it it's a sign that there is nothing that is currently challenging. You, you know, I, yeah. I had a similar perspective in terms of, I gave a talk a while back to a group because I, I mean, I love talking about fear and anxiety and stuff like that because I've believe it or not been like a super anxious person most of my life. And I'm kind of fascinated with the different ways people have developed for coping with that and continuing to move forward in spite of the fear and anxiety, cuz it never really goes away. Like I said, so I gave this, um, speech and oh wow. I, I wound up sharing that. I had always been terrified to join a blues band or, or just a band in general because I was a singer, but I was scared I was gonna blow note or forget the words or like otherwise make a fool of myself. And got to share this story about like all of my fears actually came true. I have blown a note. I have have forgotten the words. I have literally fallen and flashed my behinds to people right after singing the song, Tush, Tush by ZZ Top.

Maggie Karshner (27:11):

That's just, that's just appropriate.

Angie Colee (27:15):

And I remember having in that moment, a split second decision, like, okay, well I can run and hide and, and this gig ends or, you know, I can just kind of face it. And I, I made a split second decision to stand up and kind of tell people, well, apparently I can't sing Tush without showing you mine. We'll be back in 10 minutes and you can almost hear, like, I feel like we feel that people are like judging us or just waiting for us to make a mistake so they can point and laugh. And, and there are some assholes out there that do that, but they're assholes. In general. Most people really want you to do well. And when they see you trip up, they're, they're like embarrassed and stressed out for you. And they're hoping that you pick up, like they're rooting for you to pick up and, and succeed. And you can almost feel like the tension deflate when you get up and do like, I poked fun at myself and everybody was suddenly like, oh, okay. She's okay. Okay, cool.

Maggie Karshner (28:09):

Yeah, exactly. And like, um, like I, I sometimes encounter folks who are, you know, interested in starting a business that they're worried that their people around them are going to shoot them down. That they're gonna be like, well, you can't do that. Or that there's some, you know, their, their family and friends around them have a story that entrepreneurship just equates to some kind of failure or stress or something. The thing that I think is important to keep in mind is that, especially for the people who are in your inner circle, they are, they're your cheerleaders.

Angie Colee (28:43):


Maggie Karshner (28:43):

Like they are going to support or you, um, if they don't like, please find some other friends.

Angie Colee (28:49):

Yes, yes.

Maggie Karshner (28:53):

You need to have cheerleaders. And so like they best be on board with it.

Angie Colee (28:59):

Yeah. If, if you're sharing your dream with people and their first instinct is to stomp all over it, that is not somebody that you need in your corner. And also don't share your dreams with them moving forward. They have, uh, revoked their privilege at sharing your dreams because they have not treated those dreams, uh, and aspirations with the tenderness that they deserve. I think we all need a little tenderness. We all need a reminder that we're human and it's okay to human.

Maggie Karshner (29:22):

Yeah. Oh, it's so important. Um, and I think like the, uh, the validity and importance of dreams, uh, shouldn't be overlooked. Like I think sometimes, you know, we, we look at the person who's sort of a dreamer and we're like, oh, they're a dreamer. You know? Like, like it's somehow not gonna come true. But the thing about that is that any technological advance, any scientific advance, any, um, new development in the arts has come because somebody had a dream. Somebody had a vision for something that wasn't happening right now that other people could have called crazy. That could have said, well, that's just never gonna happen, but they went after it anyway.

Angie Colee (30:02):

And they probably did say, it's crazy. Don't do that. That's stupid. That's dumb.

Maggie Karshner (30:07):

Yeah. But they went after it anyway. And so the important part is to have those people in your corner who are like supporting you in that dream and down for it. Um, and, and to let the, the naysayers and the assholes just, you know, let them go trolls on the internet if they make them happy. Great. But it doesn't. And like, let's go, you know, do some cool stuff and make the world a better place.

Angie Colee (30:32):

I like, if you were listening to this show, please never underestimate the power of the right idea, striking the right person at right time. You would literally not be listening to this podcast at all. If I hadn't had a random conversation in 2008, with a journalist who interviewed a dude about a book, he just wrote. So in a moment of desperation, I suddenly remembered this random conversation that I had years ago. And I go pick up this book and I read it from cover to cover. And I've changed my field overnight. I decided to become a copywriter. Like that's how quickly your life can change with one good idea at the right time. So like, don't let people tell you your idea is trash trash, those people. That's what I say

Maggie Karshner (31:19):

Exactly. I think my, my realization was similar sort of overnight. Like I didn't think that I was gonna be an entrepreneur or business owner. I just had this realization that to do the thing I wanted to do to, to help people start their own self-employed businesses. It'd be a bit hypocritical if I didn't have a business myself. And so it was sort of like this lightning strike of like a, oh shit, hold on. I, I have to have a business in order to do this. I gotta walk my talk. Like, that's the only way I know how to do things. So I gotta go do this. Um, so, you know, I, I'm not one of those stories where it was like, you know, oh, I'll someday I'll, you know, become an entrepreneur, start my own thing. Like, it was very much the opposite. It was like, oh crap. All right. I guess I have to take the trash out now. Cool. Well, now that that's done, I get to do the fun part.

Angie Colee (32:11):

I love that, you know, that's become my favorite strategy recently is that is if I'm really scared and paralyzed to do something, um, I look at it as a challenge to liberate someone else from that fear by doing it myself. And like, I don't saying it out loud, like that makes it sound like it's all about me, Angie that's, that's not the intent, but, you know, recently I, I struggled with my life coach over charging a big number for a contract that I was considering. And he was like, okay. So is this an opportunity to show other people how much they could demand and value how they could negotiate, how they could stand in their power? And I was like, well, when you put it that way,

Maggie Karshner (32:56):

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like you gotta, you know, I, for one, and I think we all probably at least quietly have a vision for how the world ought to work, you know? And so if, if we're going to actually have that world exist, that means that, you know, the vision that I have for that, which might be slightly different than other folks, um, has, we've got to put it into action. So if, um, you know, if I think that people should be self-employed and that this is a fantastic viable option for people, then I gotta go do it myself. And, and that's so true. And like, yeah, if you're gonna charge what you're worth, you gotta do that. You gotta start with yourself. Um, and that will give people, um, the, the permission to, to do likewise

Angie Colee (33:45):

Absolutely. And that's, you know, yet another reason not to listen to the trolls cuz they ain't starting with themselves. They're starting by picking on everybody else around them.

Maggie Karshner (33:53):

Oh, I know. Right. Also I like to remember remind folks of trolls that you've, you've really truly made it. We, and you have your first troll, right?

Angie Colee (34:01):

Yes. Oh my gosh.

Maggie Karshner (34:03):

Speaking that, like I know I don't have a troll yet full disclosure. I don't have any trolls. Come on, bring it.

Angie Colee (34:11):

The, the first troll I got, uh, you know, I was so scared of it for so long is like, when I, it, the first time I run ads, I know I'm gonna get trolls. And I'm kind of scared of what people will think of me if I run ads to this podcast and they don't like what I have to say. And I, the funniest thing was I did get the trolls, but I noticed a pattern. It was all old, angry guys over a certain age. Um, and they were all saying the same thing about like, why are you appearing on my feed? Because you're on Facebook. It's kind of a, like asking a commercial. Why it's appearing on your TV cuz you're watching TV. Um, so I, you know, I remember being scared in the moment they all started posting what they thought were clever, like spam gifs. Uh, I just repo responded very cheekily to all of them like, Hey brother, thanks for the help. Bumping me up in the algorithm, just a small business owner, trying to do great things. And I started trolling them right back.

Maggie Karshner (35:06):

Nice. Yeah. Cause that is that's, that's some fuel for your own fire, right? Like you're getting some interactions. That's good to the algorithm.

Angie Colee (35:14):

So now I'm not quite as afraid of troll. I mean, I know that they're out there and they're gonna find me at some point, but you know, I'm either gonna have fun with them or I'm gonna flat out ignore them. But either way, you know, they enter my space, I get to engage with them how I choose to. And they're definitely not gonna impact my business.

Maggie Karshner (35:30):

Yeah, no. Cause like I have co and it sounds like you do too have confidence in like the thing that you're trying to do in the world. So if somebody doesn't get it, that's fine. They cannot get it. If they're gonna not get it in like a loud way in your face, like that's just obnoxious. Like we're trying to do some good here. If it doesn't apply to you. Great. You could sit down and be quiet or you can be a troll fun. Awesome.

Angie Colee (35:55):

Oh yeah. It was funny. Cuz I was talking about that with my assistant and I was like, okay, there, there is a point at which I will stop engaging with them. And that's especially if they are trolling, like podcast posts and they go after one of my guests, Ooh that's when mama bear comes out, troll me all you want you go after a guest, this is shut down. You are blocked. You are banned. You are not coming back to this cuz you don't get to come into my house and shit on the rug. That's not how this works.

Maggie Karshner (36:19):

Yeah. No. That is not how this works. Did your mama not raise you? Right.

Angie Colee (36:24):

Sit on the couch. Don't shit on the rug.

Maggie Karshner (36:27):

The rules are simple.

Angie Colee (36:30):

I know. So I've only had that once happen where somebody came after one of my guests and I, I caught it within like 30 seconds of him posting it and a meeting like deleted it banned and was like, all right, well we're done with this. You don't get to interact here anymore. And obviously they could create other accounts and come back. But like I don't care. I ain't gonna worry about that. Not gonna live in the future.

Maggie Karshner (36:48):

That that is why the block button was invented. Just go ahead and block them

Angie Colee (36:53):

And don't let those extra and you don't even know who they are. So why do you care? What they think of? You just do your own thing, baby.

Maggie Karshner (36:59):

Yeah, seriously. There's a lot of diversity out there and some of it is great and some of it, you know, if they're pro shit on the rug, then they can do that in their own house. Not my,

Angie Colee (37:11):

Exactly. Exactly. Maybe they need to build their own community of rug shitters, you know?

Maggie Karshner (37:17):

Yeah. That's great. They can go be over there in their smelly houses that's fine

Angie Colee (37:23):

And on that wonderful visual, this has been such a wonderful conversation. Please tell us more about your work and where to find you.

Maggie Karshner (37:36):

Yeah. So you can find me at Maggie, That's my website. You can learn all about the business coaching that I offer. Um, as well as there's some freebies blog articles and fun stuff like that there.

Angie Colee (37:47):

Oh excellent. I'm gonna make sure that they have clickable links in all of the show notes and I really hope, uh, I think that we changed some lives today. I'm not, I, I will stand on that soapbox and say, yes, this was some good, stuff.

Maggie Karshner (37:59):

Well I enjoyed myself.

Angie Colee (38:01):

Right. Thank you so much for being on the show and we're gonna have to do this again.

Maggie Karshner (38:04):

Yeah, totally.

Angie Colee (38:08):

So that is it. Another awesome episode of Permission to Kick Ass on the books. If you want to know more about the show or if you want to know more about me, Angie Colee and the mission I'm on to help entrepreneurs punch fear in the face and do big bold things, then head on over to That is all one word together, Make sure to sign up for my email list so that you know whenever there's a hot, fresh and ready podcast episode out for you. And also on Mondays, I like to send out a little newsletter called Kick Monday's Ass. I'm sure you're totally, totally surprised by that. So thank you for being here with me today. I'm Angie Colee. Make sure that you share this with a friend that needs to hear this message today. Like it, share it. Comment wherever you're listening to this today and let's go kick some ass.