Permission to Kick Ass

Laurie-Ann Murabito: Get Comfortable with Discomfort

Episode Summary

How does a painfully shy girl become a public speaker strategist? For my guest, Laurie-Ann Murabito, all it took was a book recommendation and a text message. (Of course she also had the courage to say “yes” and figure it out, and take massive action!) If you’ve been waiting for an invitation to do something different, listen now.

Episode Notes

Laurie-Ann’s path to becoming a kick-ass public speaker started with a baby step — looking people in the eyes as a painfully shy teenage clerk at the grocery store. Laurie-Ann recognized at a young age that all the things that didn’t come naturally were just habits she could develop. If you’ve been thinking you don’t have the natural skills for biz, this episode’s for you. 

Can’t-Miss Moments From This Episode:

This one is jam-packed full of advice. Don’t miss out - listen now!

Laurie’s Bio:

Laurie-Ann Murabito, Business Mentor & Speaking Strategist, working with clients to communicate with confidence and leverage speaking opportunities and be positioned as the expert, attract high-end clients and monetize their authority. 

She’s a reformed painfully shy gal who accidentally became a professional speaker. 

Laurie-Ann combines her 25 years as an award winning speaker, Master Coach and obsession with her client’s results. 

She’s the best selling author of, Rethink Leadership and Rethink Your Leadership and host of the Be In Demand Podcast.

A few of her clients are Fortune 500 and 1000 companies such as Johnson & Johnson, American Towers along with the American Cancer Society, Bay State Wealth and many online entrepreneurs, who are changing the way business looks today. 

Resources and links mentioned:

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Episode Transcription

Angie Colee (00:01):

Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass, a podcast about leaving self-doubt in the dust, punching fear in the face and taking bold action toward your biggest dreams. I'm Angie Colee, and let's get to it.

Angie Colee (00:18):

Hey and welcome back to Permission to Kick Ass with me today is my new friend and we have just spent so much time talking and laughing. Uh, I almost forgot to record the episode. Anyway, welcome to the show Laurie- Ann Murabito!

Laurie- Ann Murabito (00:32):

Hello Hello. I'm so excited to have this conversation with you because first off I gotta say, I just love the name of your podcast.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (00:42):

But I'm sure you hear that all the time.

Angie Colee (00:44):

I get that a lot. And it's funny because when I tell people that it's, it's kind of stolen from one of my mentors, but he's never had a problem with that and he loves that. So..

Laurie- Ann Murabito (00:54):

Mentors, you know, what would we do without them?

Angie Colee (00:57):


Angie Colee (00:57):

I think they're, they're loving mirrors that reflects things back to you that you can't see without help. Yeah. And I, I think of that, I think of a lot of the relationships that I have in life personally and business wise the same way, like the reflection of a loving mirror versus the distorted that we see when we start self-examination and judgment.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (01:18):

I would have to say I have an unknown mentor. Mm. That got me into the personal development world. Mm. So I come from healthcare and I was so I did, um, cardiac and vascular ultrasound and I was doing a cardiac ultrasound, an echocardiogram for anybody who was listening, who knows what I'm talking about. um, and it had to be a gentleman because he was buttoning his shirt. Um, while I was kind of like just taking down some notes and he said to me, and I have no idea what the conversation was that I had said to him, but he said to me, you'd probably love the book, the magic of thinking big. Mm. Me being the, um, you know, 22, 23, 24 year old, grabbed a scrap piece of paper. I wrote the title down and I said to him, if I don't get it tonight, I will get it tomorrow. Because right down the street, there was a Barnes and Noble.

Angie Colee (02:15):


Laurie- Ann Murabito (02:15):

Got that book, read that book. And that was like my, my, the door that opened this world about, oh my God, I could be so much more.

Angie Colee (02:24):

Oh my gosh. I feel like that's the theme of today. cause I, I recorded, I record multiple episodes in one day, but the gentleman that I spoke to right before you, we were talking about this whole concept of the right idea at the right time being a life changer and how that could be you out there changing somebody's life, just by sharing your thoughts and, and opinions, giving what you can helping where you can, you could literally be changing the course of somebody else's life and never even know. Right. Because they don't know to reach out and tell you or they get distracted or other things happen. Like, but like we often get in this, I think role or this thought process that if we're going to have an impact on the world, it needs to be this grand scale, we need to be mother there. You need to be an Elon Musk. Not that he's an actual kind person, but anyway, uh, moving on, uh, but to change the world, you don't have to actually be on operating on that large of a scale. Like think of the ripple impacts of you making a positive difference on one person who goes out and makes a positive difference on another person and on and on it goes.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (03:34):


Laurie- Ann Murabito (03:34):

That's what it, and it's literally that ripple effect, that domino effect all because you either said some, I mean like this person has no idea. I'm sure he walked away from the room. Probably mm-hmm you know, maybe he didn't even think, you know, you know, she's not gonna get the book. I keep promoting that book. Maybe it was his book, like who knows,

Angie Colee (03:57):

but wouldn't, wouldn't that be something that was his book.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (04:00):

I Know and like, because neither one of my parents were in this personal development world at all. So this just opened my eyes and like, and it's definitely was that very first step that got me to where I am right here.

Angie Colee (04:17):

Oh, that's excellent. Well, and speaking of right here, tell us a little bit more about you and your business.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (04:23):

Thank you. I am a reform painfully shy girl who accidentally became a professional speaker. I, that I people find that very hard to believe, but there's a story there and I'm happy to share that. I, so I became a professional speaker. I got to a point where I was just hopping on airplanes constantly. And then one day I finally said, you know, instead of, um, coaching clients and speaking at their, at their events, speaking for their companies, I just thought, you know, like universe, there has got to be a different business model. Mm-hmm and it came in the form of a text message.

Angie Colee (05:00):


Laurie- Ann Murabito (05:01):

Somebody who had seen me speak several times locally, um, here in New Hampshire and she had won a coaching session. So that's why she had my phone number and the text message said, Laurie-Ann do you write speeches for people? Hmm. And I was like, so if anybody, if you could see my face, I had this like weird face. And I was like, no, I don't write speeches for people. Instead. I said like, um, well how about we like meet and let's talk. And I ended up, she was somebody who was three years away from retiring from her government job. She wasn't leaving at that point. You stand on your head to finish off your 20, 25 years. Mm-hmm , you've had a side hustle for five years and was successfully losing money for five years. so that's why she's turning to me like, you know, can you help me write a speech? And I was like, oh, I can teach you how to get booked. I can teach you how to write what I call a three C's presentation, which is compelling. Mm-hmm captivating and most importantly converting. And then I said, and then I'll teach you how to leverage it afterwards so that it turns into more, I had so much fun working with her. Mm-hmm sharing, you know, like my knowledge with somebody else. And after her first presentation, she walked away with two referrals to two other places to speak and three full paying clients.

Angie Colee (06:26):

Oh my gosh. That's amazing.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (06:27):

I was like, that's a home run. Oh, I wonder if anybody else wants to know what I know. And so literally like, you know, I was just like, okay, so there is a different business model. Mm-hmm and that's what brought me into the online world, which was a whole nother, like learning curve as well.

Angie Colee (06:46):

Oh yeah, for sure. I wrote, I was like furiously scribbling notes while listening to you talk, you know, there's something interesting that came to my attention recently called human design. I don't know how familiar you are with it. Yes. But somebody encouraged me to take a test and I consider myself a lifelong learner, even if, a little bit skeptical of like woo type things. But I, I am very curious about it a nd any test that helps you understand yourself a bit more, I think is good.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (07:11):

I'm in.

Angie Colee (07:11):

I discovered I'm apparently a generator and I've been reading more about this, cause I don't understand what it means, but it means kind of similar to you. Like we go out, we put our energy out into the world and then we respond to invitations and I was like, you know, it's really freaking weird. But if I look back over the course of my life, that's exactly how my best opportunities have come up. I go out, I do something, I put a lot of positive energy into this. I'm not trying to manifest anything or anything like that, but I, I just go do something that feels good with my whole heart and my whole soul. And people resonate with that and they come back to me and they're like, Hey, you should host a podcast. You should be a coach. And I go, yeah, that sounds interesting. And then I jump into that for a while and that usually creates another encounter with another person and another opportunity and so on and, and so forth. So I interesting. I find that interesting, cause that sounded like the same thing. Like you got an invitation.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (08:07):

Yeah. So I'm a manifesting generator, but the woman who did my reading said, I'm more generator that I am manifesting generator. And just to hear you share your, like your explanation of generators, I'm like, oh, now I get it.

Angie Colee (08:22):

I am not an expert in this by any means, if you were curious about, uh, human design, definitely look it up. There are people out there that do like custom reports and stuff, but it just found that interesting, cause I had never noticed that pattern in my life and I, you know, I guess I should clarify cause the most interesting and successful and like biggest paths to growth for me were all responses to invitations because I was out there putting my full heart and soul into something. I was doing acting in compassion and integrity and then the right people that liked that cause right. Not everybody likes me and that's fine cause I don't like everybody either it's okay. Right. But like the right people that like, that were like, let's find a way to work together. I'm working on this. Is that something interesting to you? I'm like, oh hell yeah. Oh crap. Sorry. You're supposed to think about these things, right? No, not going to just gonna say yes. We'll figure it out.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (09:13):

Go for it. Go for it. Yeah. Like I, I'm definitely one of those I'll jump and I'll grow my wings as, as like I'm falling, you know, I've figured out. I always figure things out.

Angie Colee (09:26):

Yes. And I thought that was interesting too. cause one of the things that I wrote down was like not knowing how to, or not knowing if you can, but just taking a step and pausing and saying, yeah, okay. What do you need help with? Let's let's do this. Yeah. I feel like a lot of people might get stuck at a place like that, where they get asked a point blank question like that. Have you ever written speeches for people? The answer is no. Right. But you understand the context of that, which is are you open to writing speeches for people? So like if you can pause and listen to what the real question is. Oh man. And that, it sounds like it changed the whole course of your life too.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (10:04):

It, it did, you know, and there, I was like, I was running two websites because I was a speaker in the leadership and corporate, you know, industry. So I had to leave that website up because I still had, you know, like leadership, you know, keynote on the calendar. Yeah. I was like, well I can't confuse people. And so then I started this other thing, you know, and I just had so much fun. Mm. And I didn't, I didn't end up writing the speech for, because I told her, I said, if I write it, it's gonna be my voice. Mm you're gonna write it. I'm just gonna give you the structure and I'm gonna help you edit it so that it's compelling, captivating, you know, converting. I said, and because you're gonna write it, you're that's gonna be part of your, how you memorize it and how you learn your presentation.

Angie Colee (10:51):

Oh, I love that.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (10:51):

Like I still do that. Like I, yeah. I don't write speeches for people.

Angie Colee (10:56):


Laurie- Ann Murabito (10:57):

Because I don't think, yeah. I just don't think it's gonna do them any good.

Angie Colee (11:01):

I, I totally agree with you. Um, I think that's, you know, cause my background is as a copywriter and I actually spent, I've told this story on the show before, but I spent four years as basically a ghost writer for a big personality brand. I was, I wrote as him, you know, late fifties, early sixties, family, men from Michigan, totally different background from me, but was able to write, not only write as him, but run his team, edit other writers, trying to write it as, as him. And it was definitely a different skillset. Um, and I would say that the biggest thing that I learned from that in trying to capture somebody else's voice was not to try and write as him. If that makes sense. Mm-hmm it was like, I, I needed to figure out the message. I needed to figure out what we wanted people to do. And just kind of write that, connect all the dots, made sure it flowed, walk away and then I needed to come back and be like, all right, how would he say this? How would he say this? I had to edit in his voice. I couldn't write,

Laurie- Ann Murabito (12:00):

Ooh, I like that edit in his voice.

Angie Colee (12:03):

And I do something similar now where people are like, you know, can you help me with a, with a project? We've got a very specific brand voice and stuff like that. I'm okay, well you need, you need to write this. The that's the exercise I can help you fill in the gaps. I can help you with the logic and the transitions, but I can't be you. I can only get really close. So yeah, I found that. Interesting. And the other thing that really stuck out to me when you were talking was you mentioned this three C's format and I was curious about, was that something that you already did in your speeches or was that something that developed as a course of working with your clients?

Laurie- Ann Murabito (12:37):

Uh, it was something that I had developed before working with clients to teach them how to use, um, speaking, just because I was writing my own speeches mm-hmm and they had to be compelling, captivating and converting, you know, and the converting is not just clients, but it's like spinoff business. It's like, it's other speeches, you know, so that you step off the stage, you know, that's what, this is what I tell all my clients, like my goal for them is that they step off the stage and somebody comes up to them and like, you know, is handing them business cards saying, please call me mm-hmm cause I, I wanna bring you into my company. I'm on the committee for this other event and you'd be perfect for it. You know, some sort of spinoff business.

Angie Colee (13:18):

I love that. I, you know, and I think that's something that we don't really talk about enough in business or, or maybe the more accurate term would be, it has not been my experience as a woman in business to hear this be explicitly talked about, but you get to make offers, you get to ask people to contact you, you get to sell your shit, every opportunity that you get and you don't need permission to do that. cause you got a business to run.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (13:44):

Right. Right. And it can be so easy in speaking, you know, you know, like one of the things that we start with is like, like what's the goal of the speech. Like literally like, you know, and it, the goal doesn't have to be like, I wanna sell this. It's just like, what do, like when you're done speaking and I wrote both of my books this way, when the, when the client is done, when the reader is done, like reading the book and they close it, I thought, what do I want them to think, feel or do differently. Great. There's the goal. This is how I, you like, you start with the end in mind and I do this with speaking too. Start with the end in mind. Here's what I here's, here's the goal. So in order for that to happen, what has to be in the book? What has to be in the speech? Mm-hmm fantastic. Now we know what the parts are.

Angie Colee (14:33):


Laurie- Ann Murabito (14:33):

And I just like, it's literally like I work my way back to right to the beginning.

Angie Colee (14:37):

I love that. Especially since you, you brought that up in the context of writing books, which I know a lot of people are really interested in right. Being a published author, it's just really cool. It's this great like status symbol. And then it's like a symbol of pride because it's hard work to produce a book and like put it out there. Um, and it's interesting to me that you said start with the end of the in mind because I feel like so many people that want to write a book or want to write a speech that thought never occurs to them.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (15:05):

They start at the beginning mm-hmm yeah. And if you're gonna write and speak, I tell people, write the right book.

Angie Colee (15:14):


Laurie- Ann Murabito (15:15):

Write the book. That basically is the next step. Like, like after you're done speaking, like the book is like, oh, here's like what she talked about. Here's what, you know, like she goes, it goes into depth on what, on the points that she was sharing. Mm-hmm , you know, so that, it's just the next step.

Angie Colee (15:33):

Ooh. I love that. Thinking of this in terms of, of like the journey that you're going to take people on and not just people, the right people that get what you're trying to say, the end goal that you're trying to get them to with the speech or with the book or with everything is in line with their goals and they know it as soon as they hear it and you've already done that thinking to get them there step by step.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (15:54):


Angie Colee (15:54):

Yeah. I love it. Yeah. They can't see me I'm over here dancing in my chair.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (16:00):


Angie Colee (16:00):

So I, I imagine the development of this, uh, career though, and correct me if I'm wrong. I mean, we often talk about kind of how we discovered this in our origin story and to people from the outside, it sounds like it was just this. Okay. I discovered this thing and then I just like took off like a rocket and I never looked back. And this was amazing. Uh, would you say that's been your experience in developing this?

Laurie- Ann Murabito (16:23):


Angie Colee (16:27):

Had a feeling you were gonna say that, but I had to be dramatic in my setup.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (16:30):

There was a lot of hiking without boots and out, out, out. Cause I, as I've like walked over those stones,

Angie Colee (16:38):

That's such an interesting metaphor that I've never heard before, but I love it. You get that instant visual of hiking without boots. Ouch.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (16:44):

Yeah, it hurts. It was, you know, I had to learn a lot of lessons, you know? And so back to part of my intro where I said, I'm a reform painfully shy girl mm-hmm who accidentally became a speaker. And you mentioned something, um, also about self integrity earlier. Mm. And that's a little bit about how I became a professional speaker. So I'm gonna tell, I'm gonna tell you and your audience, all the listeners, like a funny story. So I really was the sort person I couldn't even make eye contact and I knew deep down inside, this is as a teenager mm-hmm this was not. And I don't know where I got this again. You know, like mom and dad aren't in the personal development, dad's an engineer. Mom was afraid of people, so, okay. Uh, you know, like the, the genes were, you know, didn't set me up to be a speaker that's for sure.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (17:32):

So I just knew that it wasn't going to serve me in the long run. So I just thought, well, maybe I'll just a little bit just, just for a few seconds. Okay. The earth did not open up. Didn't swallow me whole, the person that I was talking to didn't punch me, you know, didn't think I was weird or anything. So I was like, maybe I could do it for a few, few more seconds and a few more seconds. And that's how I started to at least make eye contact with people. Mm. Now I have a degree in exercise physiology, guess who became a fitness instructor? Teaching classes. Oh yeah. So I would be yelling at people. yelling at people to motivate them. So then this idea of, well, Hey, well maybe if I became a speaker, I mean, I've been yelling at people, so maybe I could talk to them rather reasonably mm-hmm left my corporate job, which I went was in healthcare.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (18:24):

And I moved over to the medical device and left my corporate job. And I was with a few other women cause women network differently. Yes. And so we were creating an event that would be networking, but also education.

Angie Colee (18:40):

Hmm. I like that.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (18:41):

And so the hell looked at me and said, you do the speaking and inside I'm shaking my head. Yes. But inside I'm just like, what the hell are you doing? seriously. And I was just like, but I said that I would do it. So I had to do it. So for anybody out there, who's listening. Who wants to get into speaking. I'm gonna share with you. I'm gonna describe my first speaking event. It went something like this. There was no intro. There was no beginning. There was no warm up. It was just, I started teaching nice for about 15 minutes. Okay. This is how it came to an end. Okay. Now I'm done.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (19:26):

I literally said that, now I'm done. And if you wanna talk to me privately, I'll be in the back of the room. Mm-hmm I mean, I just wanted to get away and it was a standing room only. I mean, it was, it was a hot new England, um, afternoon. It was at a conference center that out in the, out, in the woods, like little, like little red riding hood, like out in the woods. And there was no air conditioning at the stage. OK. So you get a feel for the, the setting, but people came up to me and started asking me questions like, oh, do you like, is it, you know, do you work with clients? Is this what you do for them? And I was just like, did you like, see the train wreck that just happened?

Angie Colee (20:12):

Interesting. Like it was that a conscious thought or just something that popped into your mind at the last second to just cause you could have just ended it with, okay, I'm now I'm done. And just like walked away and kind of embraced the awkwardness, you know? Or, but you chose to throw out this implied invitation right. Of I'll be in the back of the room. If you have questions, subtext. It's okay to come talk to me. I welcome that. And then people did, was that something that was planned or just came off the top of your head?

Laurie- Ann Murabito (20:42):

It, it just happened. I think I just said it spur of the moment I had to get you like you like out of the front of the room. mm-hmm and I think it's, I think there's a recording somewhere on a, on a, on one of those flip videos.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (20:54):

Do you remember those?

Angie Colee (20:55):

Yes, I do.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (20:56):

I think I have a copy of it somewhere. Um, because we did, but you like my sister, um, tagged along and I think she did the, uh, the recording, but that, no, I just kind of just said that just to get away from mm-hmm , you know, the, the front of the room, like, so apparently I wasn't doing in a Q and a . Yep.

Angie Colee (21:19):

But you know what, what a great way, if you are feeling shy and kind of like you're on the spot on stage. I know that that's a lot, a lot of my students have that moment of discomfort. Like if I have to present and people ask me questions, I don't feel like I am really good at thinking on the fly. And what if I don't know what the answer to their question is. Um, and they don't also feel comfortable. Like I've gotten very comfortable the further I've gone going, you know, I actually don't know the answer to that one. That's a really good one. Um, here are some resources that might be able to help you with that problem. And you know, if you connect with me after this, I can look into it a little bit more for you, but I've gotten very,

Laurie- Ann Murabito (21:57):

That's a perfect,

Laurie- Ann Murabito (21:58):

Yeah. That's a perfect way to answer it. Like you don't have to answer or know everything, but a simple, I'm not sure mm-hmm but that's a great question. You know, come up to give me your contact information. I'll get an answer to you.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (22:12):

Yeah. Cause I like, I know people.

Angie Colee (22:14):

And that's the funniest learning, I think overall in my journey to expertise and really getting comfortable, owning feeling like an expert. Like I actually know what I'm talking about, especially since, and I'm sure you're familiar with this. The more that you learn, the more you realized there's so much more to learn and I, I don't know it all and I can't possibly know it all and I feel like kind of dumb

Laurie- Ann Murabito (22:34):

Yeah. I don't think we've ever, we ever like arrive. Yeah. Like life is just a journey. Mm-hmm like a lot of times. And, and I think this question's applicable to this, to what we're saying right now. A lot of times I've had people say, what was your best speech? Mm. My next one.

Angie Colee (22:51):

Love it!

Laurie- Ann Murabito (22:51):

because I'm always like oh, wow. I wish I had said this. Mm-hmm you know what, next time I'm gonna try this story there. Mm-hmm , you know, there's always something that I wanna try and do differently. I'm always trying to improve.

Angie Colee (23:05):

I love that. You know, and the funny thing is that I think the most successful the most well connected people that I know, uh, all seem to have this personal development, fascination, almost like an obsession with learning. How, how can I know more about myself? How can I understand my own motivations? How can I connect with people better? I it's an interesting thing to me because I don't think that there are a lot of people self-aware enough to focus on personal development.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (23:33):

Yeah, no, no. That's, it's very true. Mm-hmm , they're just kind of, this is just the way this is just the way that things are. Yep. These are, this is the way that my life is. Like I have, have no say in how my life turns out and I like, I just don't. I don't. Yeah. I don't subscribe to that story.

Angie Colee (23:53):

I don't want, I love that. I want that on a fricking mug on a t-shirt. I don't subscribe to that story because like, I mean, we hear that just in the story that you're telling today, right? Everybody knows what a painfully shy person. We've all either been that person or encountered that person. And you know, I, I have this theory of thought that, especially if we're nervous about like, one of the big fears is, is speaking on stage, right? People feel like they're gonna be judged, but nobody in the audience is rooting for you to fail. No, that's just like a TV and movie troop. All of those people are going, like, I hope this is good. I hope this is entertaining. I hope this is valuable. And if you like stumble or you get visibly nervous, everybody in the audience is uncomfortable for you. And they're like, oh my gosh, no, no, no. Just take a deep breath honey. Like, or, or maybe I'm just speaking for myself. But when I see somebody encounter that, like they are visibly nervous. I'm just sitting there like breathe, honey, breathe, honey. Yep. We're we're cheering you on. It's okay. It's okay. Nobody's here judging you just, just, just breathe.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (24:52):

I was, I actually, um, spoke at a speaker showcase here locally in New Hampshire. And there was a young lady and she'd never spoken before, but she had a story to tell mm-hmm she got up there and she was really nervous. And she did, she had to take a moment. She was like, okay. Um, she just said, she goes, I'm nervous. Mm-hmm she goes, okay. She goes, let me just take a couple of deep breaths. And like the, the, the whole audience is just like, we're here for you. Mm-hmm breathe. Okay. You got this.

Speaker 2 (25:22):

Oh man. That's so great. And it's, it's interesting to me because one of the things that I wrote down was, um, just putting yourself out there and trying something because I loved this concept of, I couldn't even look people in the eye. It just made me very uncomfortable. So what, I don't know, if you I'm put, I'm kind of putting you on the spot here, but like what led to you going okay. But if I just try it for a few seconds and see what happens, I'm comfortable with that.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (25:47):

So I worked at a grocery store when I was in high school and that's kind of where, where this all like stemmed from. And I remember just watching, like, I, he, Richard Gezardi

Laurie- Ann Murabito (25:58):

he was so outgoing. He's he, like, I think he went into sales, um, and he was perfect for that, but he was just so outgoing and he would just like talk to everybody, like before the shift was starting. And I was just like, oh my God. To like, to be that easy. Mm-hmm to just be able to converse with people. And I just, I, I do, I remember saying to myself, like not making eye contact and not speaking up is not gonna do me any good in the long run. Like what teenager is thinking about their adulthood mm-hmm . But for some reason, like it was just like a download. It was almost at like a whisper, like just start making eye, like just a baby step right now. Mm-hmm just a baby step and see what happens.

Angie Colee (26:46):

I love that. Especially like the, the myth of entrepreneurship is like, everybody has the plan. We have the master plan, the 10 year plan five year, one year got the backup and the backup to the backup. And like on it goes, right. Prepar,

Laurie- Ann Murabito (26:59):

We're generators, you know, like, do we have a plan for tomorrow?

Angie Colee (27:02):

No prepared for every eventuality. You know, guys, before I became a copywriter, I had no idea that, that it even existed as a professional skillset. It just, it was a book I read right idea at the right time. And I was like, I think I can do that. And then there we go change the course of the life. I, I find that interesting because I feel like I'm repeating myself saying interesting, but everything here is really fascinating. Uh, one of the things that really jumped out at me in you telling me how you learned to like make eye contact and what really motivated you to do that was this idea of letting it be easy. cause how often do we get caught up in our own minds? I know I'm guilty of this too. Especially if I've got a task that I've been kind of putting off or I'm a little bit intimidated by or overwhelmed by, I start catastrophizing in my head and it's gonna take me this much time and it's gonna be this much effort. And like I wind up spending so much time agonizing over how much time this is going to take me that when I finally set a timer and make myself get down to business, usually, cause I'm up against a deadline. I get that thing done in like 20 minutes. And I go, oh, well that wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it was gonna be.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (28:13):

I think part for me, it's taking the emotion out of the task, you know, here's a great one, a lot of people, well, I'll write when I'm motivated to yeah. I'll reach out when I'm inspired, you know, like to reach out to people it's like, no. So I, I did a podcast episode on this and it's something that I say like as entrepreneurs, it's like we have a split personality mm-hmm draw literally like draw a line, like right through yourself. And like one side of you is the CEO and the other side of you is the employee. So can you imagine the CEO saying, um, Hey Angie, you need to go write that, finish that article. Yeah. Um, I just, yeah, I, I don't feel like it mm-hmm I mean, the CEO's gonna say like what? Yeah. Um, excuse me. You're fired.

Angie Colee (29:02):

do you want to get paid? I mean, that is why you get that's how you get paid, do that thing.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (29:07):

So I think so I think like for as entrepreneurs, we need to think of ourselves as a split personality, you know, like step into your CEO role. Here's what needs to get done, write your list, you know, and then step into your employee role and go do the list. Start checking things off, take the emotion out of the task.

Angie Colee (29:26):

Oh, that's so awesome. I, I teach a similar concept to my writing teams when I'm, I'm running them called switching hats. And I think it's kind of a similar thing because I think the most, the most effective sales writers, because, you know, I've, I've given this definition before, but copywriting is a form of, of sales and there's a lot of, you know, human psychology understanding the market's needs the voice of this personality. Like there's a whole lot of complex thinking that gets layered into every word that goes onto that page. And I just lost my train of thought.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (29:59):

okay. I'm gonna say something about copy. Yeah.

Angie Colee (30:02):

Go for it.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (30:03):

Speaking. I mean like copy is, is words on a website words and like an ad words and email and copy is also speaking mm-hmm

Angie Colee (30:14):

I think so. Yeah. Oh, this, it was switching hats. I remember now because I, a lot of people, especially when writing feel like they've gotta wait for that motivation, the muse has gotta come down and it's gotta be a perfect draft. And I'm like, you know, I subscribe to the school of Ann Lamont. She's one of my favorite writers she's so just like subtly funny and hilarious. And she has this concept called the first draft that I have been in love with ever since I read the book bird by bird and that's, you've really gotta commit yourself to doing it wrong so that you can figure out what is wrong about it and actually address those things. And then with more practice, you start delivering more first drafts that are closer to right than they are wrong.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (30:56):

Yes. But I, I had heard somebody like some, something similar, not the write the shitty draft. And I can't remember the interviewer who said this, but he said that he wrote for the trashcan.

Angie Colee (31:08):

Oh nice.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (31:10):

But that that's all, that's all he did. And I was having this exact conversation with a client of mine cause she was like, but I wanna go to the pool first thing in the morning, but I'm always good at writing first thing in the morning and I'm not good at writing. I'm just like, well then just like make yourself sit down when you get back. Like if you're gonna go to the pool, fine, go to the pool, but make yourself just sit down. Mm-hmm and like hello nervous system we're writing.

Angie Colee (31:32):

Yeah. And it's me in a room with a closed door and nobody ever has to see this draft other than me. So like, can we just remove the judgment and do it? And that's where that concept of switching hats comes in. It's like just write, write the first draft and then take a break and then come back as a customer, a skeptical customer and read this thing and start poking holes in your own argument. And then take another break. I think that's the beauty of writing, like take a break, disconnect yourself from it, separate from the emotions like you were saying, take the emotion out of it. I love that.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (32:03):

Yeah. Go for a walk, get outside, just move.

Angie Colee (32:06):

Yeah. And, and put, put that writer hat back on. Okay. Now that I know where the holes are, how do I fix these things and so on and so forth until you've got something that you're proud to put on out into the world.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (32:17):

Yeah. We're all here to do our thing. Mm-hmm , you know, I, I have this belief that, that we're all, we're all doing what we're good at. Yes. You know, you're good at writing. I'm good at like helping people, craft presentations, craft signature speeches that you like for me speaking is verbal art

Angie Colee (32:37):


Laurie- Ann Murabito (32:37):

and I help people craft that art and look at it that way. Like it's not just a bunch of words that you're throwing out from the stage. It's like we craft this verbal art so that the end, like you're proud of the article or the, the web copy, you know, the sales emails that, that you, that you crafted for your customer, your client, you know, and I want them to be proud of presenting this to an audience.

Angie Colee (33:03):

and how great is the, the energy of the difference of approach there? It's not just a thing to be checked off the never ending list that you rush through as fast as possible, but you put a little bit of your soul into that and you love it and you believe in it like, wow, that connects on such a deep level that you can't even really articulate I think

Laurie- Ann Murabito (33:24):

Yeah. I like, yeah. I mean, like as a, as a speaker, like I wanna connect with my audience's mind, their heart and their soul.

Angie Colee (33:33):

I love it.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (33:34):

Those three things.

Angie Colee (33:36):

It's interesting too, as we talk about this whole concept of the drafting and, and separating from the emotions of it, I know that a lot of us experienced this kind of self-judgment because if I just, if I had more discipline, I could just get it done. And the thought that popped up to me, I wrote down, as you were talking was maybe if we reframed this, you could put the passion back into it. Maybe instead of lacking discipline, you haven't made it a priority. You haven't figured out what's really important to you. And so now it feels like a chore instead of a joy.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (34:10):

And what if discipline is just a habit?

Angie Colee (34:14):

Oh, I love that.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (34:15):

A habit that you haven't strengthened. Mm-hmm , you know, I, I don't, I think a lot of us are growing up thinking like, well, I'm not motivated enough. I'm not disciplined enough. You know? It's like, well, do you think I am? like I got here because I decided I made a decision that I was committed to my business. Mm-hmm , you know, you talked earlier about, you know, like having the business plan, you know, knowing like the five year, the 10 year, like I, when I left my corporate job, I had no business plan, no sales skills. And I was like, oh, people said, if you build it, they will come. Yeah. Um, yeah, no, no. Nobody found me

Angie Colee (34:57):

It's not quite how it works, but we do love our movie tropes, right?

Laurie- Ann Murabito (35:01):

No, nobody found me until I got out in front of people and just said, I'm just gonna try this

Angie Colee (35:07):

And we're willing to potentially do it wrong. We're willing to say, all right, I'm done. walk off the stage.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (35:15):

I'm done now.

Angie Colee (35:16):

I think that's fantastic.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (35:18):

You know, and I love sharing that story with me because I don't want them to think, being a speaker It's not like I have this speaker DNA. Mm-hmm, , it's a CR it's a skill that I learned and I started once upon a time and I gave my first speech.

Angie Colee (35:34):


Laurie- Ann Murabito (35:35):

My very first live stream. I also wanna share with people like my very first live stream is still on my Facebook page because I want people to go look at it because I was so flat. Like there's no personality. It was like a board was talking because I was like, oh my God, like, I don't know how to do this. Mm-hmm

Angie Colee (35:52):

Oh my gosh. I have a similar

Laurie- Ann Murabito (35:54):

How about podcasting? Your first podcast? I remember recording my first one in, you know, like in the closet I came out of the closet. I was just like Jeepers, I can't do this. Mm-hmm

Laurie- Ann Murabito (36:05):

No, Laurie-Ann, your podcast recording muscle is really weak. Mm-hmm get back in there.

Angie Colee (36:13):

Yeah. Work it out. The very first podcast episode that, uh, I recorded was part of a, a workshop I was doing for Seth go Seth go's podcasting workshop. And so I contacted a couple of my buddies, uh, and they're actually in week one of the podcasts they're they're super short episodes cause I still didn't. I hadn't developed my hosting skills just yet. Mm-hmm at the very first episode, I made her the very first episode for a reason, Rachel Maza, because everything that could have gone wrong during that interview did the air conditioner was out. The windows were open. There are jets flying overhead. There's a thunderstorm moving through the electrician, rang the doorbell, the boyfriend knocked on the door. The cat is yelling cause she can't come in the like I feel, and, and I didn't have an editor at that point. I'm having to stitch all of this together and cut all these pieces out myself.

Angie Colee (37:01):

I mean just in editing that very first episode, I'm like, what the hell was I thinking? This is horrible. But then I got to write the show notes because when I shared it with people, they were like, I never, would've known that all that stuff happens. What are you talking about? I'm like, it's such a good episode. It's only like 18 minutes or something. It's it's pretty short. But I was like, it's good. I mean, all I have attached to it is this feeling of, of failure because everything that could have gone wrong, went wrong and I just wanted so much better for it.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (37:33):

And look at the evidence that you have, like everything can go wrong. You can still have a beautiful episode. And people are like really there was something wrong with that episode. Yeah. again, your audience is just supporting you, like, you know, the behind the scenes stuff and your audience only sees that front stage.

Angie Colee (37:53):

Yes. They see the work that you've put in mm-hmm so just put in the work. Like what if you just detach that? I love that. Uh, we're talking about tapping into and, and, and developing habits too. Cause one thought occurred to me recently. I I'm in this group, uh, that I jokingly call, uh, group therapy for entrepreneurs cause it's, it's a business masterminds, but it's run by a woman who is a, a psychotherapist like licensed. And she teaches us as a lot of these mindset tricks and these good habits to set ourselves up for success. And one that I constantly struggle with is a wake up routine and a wind down routine. I will be really, really good at one for a while. And then just completely fall off the wagon.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (38:35):

What's your wake up routine.

Angie Colee (38:37):

I like to get up brew the coffee, stretch, be in silence for a little while, drink some water, write some thoughts down. And it's such an easy thing that I, I don't know if I'm like undervaluing it or what, but I remember taking it to, like I learned two critical things in this one was that actually the success of the morning routine depends on the evening routine. And did you wind yourself down and get enough rest so that you can get up in the morning and do your routine? So that was one that kind of blew my mind because I was habitually like on my phone, late into the night and not actually setting myself up for morning success. And the other one that really surprised me. I, I had a moment of frustration at one of our meetings and I was like, why can't I just get this routine thing down?

Angie Colee (39:25):

And she goes, I wonder if you are potentially treating this like a project that has a start in an end date versus a process. And I was like, uh, I'm confused. Tell me more. And she goes, so you, you do it for a while and you're very consistent. And you achieve the goal, which is balanced, happy, healthy, energized, fantastic days resting well. And it feels to you like, yes, cross that finish line done with that. No longer need to do the thing. And in reality is that's the thing that got you to that balanced level place. Well, rested high energy. So keep doing it. don't stop now.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (40:03):

yes, yes. And my morning routine is my it's it's similar. It's it's get up. Um, there are some back stretches that I do while I repeat certain affirmations, cause I wanna have a healthy back for the rest of my life. Um, coffee.

Angie Colee (40:20):


Laurie- Ann Murabito (40:21):

And I, you know, and then there are, I'll listen to something that's positive. Like, you know, EarPods put them in, you know, so that it's, I'm not listening to other noise as well. Yes. You know, and then just kind of like, just enjoy my coffee. And now during the nice weather here, you know, in New Hampshire I'll I wanna go sit outside mm-hmm while I'm sipping the coffee so that I get some of the, it's just so peaceful. Mm-hmm I don't wanna start my day off on that kind of a note like

Angie Colee (40:50):


Laurie- Ann Murabito (40:52):

But I, but it took a while to get there because I used to be that person who got up and grabbed her phone and started reading other people's emergencies mm-hmm which that's, that's what my nickname is for email it's other people's emergencies.

Speaker 2 (41:06):

It really is. And it puts you into a reactive state versus a proactive state. And then it's so easy to spend the rest of your day reacting to other people's emergencies and you get to the end of the day and you go, well, crap, I didn't work on anything I wanted to work on today.

Angie Colee (41:20):

Yeah. I don't like that. And I don't like that feeling at the end of the day mm-hmm but um, and that when my husband's away, I take advantage of the quiet house.

Angie Colee (41:20):

Laurie- Ann Murabito (41:32):

I just, the other day, day I like, I recorded like four podcasts.

Angie Colee (41:35):


Laurie- Ann Murabito (41:36):

Because I like the ideas just came to me and I was just like, I know it's seven o'clock and normally I'm not in here at seven o'clock, but I'm just like, I'm recording a podcast.

Angie Colee (41:45):

Yeah. I have the opportunity. I'm gonna take advantage of this energy. Hell yeah. Yeah. I try, I, you know, we talk about discipline and habits. Um, I, I don't know if I've ever really fully explained on the show before, but I shut down production for usually a couple months at a time because I wind up recording so many episodes and I get so far ahead of the release schedule that when new people book on the show, they go, oh, you're not gonna air me for like six or seven months, never mind, like I didn't know that I was signing up for that long of a wait. And I did that by accident my first year of podcasting, because I was so paranoid that like something is gonna go wrong and I'm, somebody's not gonna show up and I'm not gonna have an episode for that week.

Angie Colee (42:26):

And like everything is gonna fall apart. So I started blocking off Wednesday afternoons for recording podcast. And that's the only day of the week that I record, I my longest recording date, which I'm gonna try not to do again in the future, but I wound up doing like five episodes back to back. Wow. And when you think of five episodes in one day being an entire month's worth of content, like it's, it's easy to understand how I got so far ahead, but then I accidentally created this ease for myself because you know, I'm gonna open up recording for two months. I'm gonna fill all my Wednesdays with a bunch of episodes. I'm gonna get through the end of the year at this point, like we're recording. We talked just before we started recording about how this is gonna air in October, but we're recording in July right now, fill up the rest of the year and then take some time off and repeat.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (43:16):

So I'm curious, like, do you miss recording when you have like those big breaks?

Angie Colee (43:22):

I do, because the surprising thing about this and, and I got, I arrived at this conclusion after a lot of talks with my life coach, but when I would kind of get into that resistance or that insecurity space, I would find myself being tempted to cancel or move recordings and when I would talk myself into, you know, what, just show up and have the conversation because everything else that has to happen after this to produce and make an episode live can happen later. But you just, just show up and record for now. That's all you gotta do. And then I would show up and just like we're having now we have such a wonderful conversation and we're laughing and we're smiling and like telling great stories. And by the end of the day, I would just be so light and energized and glad that I did that thing that I was resisting and, and it's a thing that I feel good at cause I've worked on developing those skills, like you said. Um, was I always a great podcast? I was probably not, but I'm better every day.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (44:22):

I've, I've been podcasting now for two years and I just recorded, you know, the other day when I recorded a bunch of episodes recorded my two year anniversary. So I'm labeling that episode 111 mm-hmm and yeah, I can see how I've cha and I heard somebody once say, podcasting will change you as a speaker. Mm-hmm I'm a much better speaker now. Oh yes. Than I was just a couple years ago.

Angie Colee (44:48):

Yeah. I think that's, you know, people are, are frustrated with their abilities to speak or they're worried about their, um, or ah, or their various verbal tick that they develop. Like nothing will help you get rid of that faster than actually forcing yourself to listen to a recording of yourself. And like, again, remove that emotion. Like we said, we keep circling back in such a beautiful way, remove that emotion, remove that judgment and just listen. And I, I discovered that I had in my early days, this habit of like, when I finished a thought taking a really loud breath and going

Angie Colee (45:20):


Angie Colee (45:21):

I'm gonna leave that one. I'm gonna tell James my editor, my wonderful editor, leave that one in, uh, because I have told him since then, like if you notice me sniffling, please edit that out because that's one thing and then I try and watch if I'm taking large breaths in at the end, but I never would've learned that if I hadn't taken that like step of listen to myself and go, okay, it's okay.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (45:42):

I guess something funny to, to say for about that. Um, in the speaking world, you know, we, and I tell my clients this also, if you are able to record yourself, whether that's just audio or just video, like if it, so it's, if it's video, you should watch it without sound. Mm. So that then you can see some of your movements, you should shut the video off and just listen. Ooh. And then a third time, just like watch it as is, watch the video watch, you know, like while you're listening to the audio. So I was sharing with, with a client. I said, I, you know, like she she's gonna like voxer me, like the, her intro. And we're just gonna go back and forth. She's like, she's like, but I don't, I, I don't wanna listen to myself. Mm-hmm . So I said, I'm gonna tell you something that we say in the speaker world. I said, I'm gonna pretend that I'm your audience. If I have to listen to you, you have to listen to yourself.

Angie Colee (46:37):

don't expect the audience to do anything that you wouldn't do.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (46:40):

Right. Listen to yourself. I that's where we learn about, oh, here's, you know, like here's when I, when I take the deep breath in mm-hmm , here's what, here's what I have a tendency to say. Um, and by the way, like, unless you're saying, um, so much and it's distracting, then it's not really a big deal.

Angie Colee (47:02):

Yeah. It's totally okay. We've both said, um, a few times while we're pausing to catch our thoughts and that's been a practice of mine too, since regularly recording to recognize that I don't have to fill that space. Yeah. I can just allow a couple of seconds grace, right there for my thoughts to catch up with my mouth. Yes. And keep it rolling without the filler words.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (47:25):

But it's funny. Some of the things that we're, we're telling ourselves, mm-hmm,

Angie Colee (47:31):

All of these merciless self judgments that wind up keeping us playing small and not putting ourselves out there and discovering that this could be easier than we're making it out to be.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (47:44):

Yeah. And what are you holding back? Like, I, I was look at that as this says, there is somebody who needs to hear your story. Mm. You know, you who doesn't wanna tell your story, but there's somebody who needs to hear it so that they can make the change that they need in their life. I mean, think back to the patient who told me, you probably would love the book, the magic of the, what if he had kept his mouth shut mm-hmm his button, his shirt. And just said, yep. See you later, lady. Bye.

Angie Colee (48:11):

He judged that thought. I really wanna recommend this book to her, but she's gonna be like, that's weird or that's boring or hell no, I'm not gonna read that book. Yeah. Wow. Like, yeah. The thoughts that are constantly kind of cycling through the back of our heads that stop us from acting could change somebody's life

Laurie- Ann Murabito (48:28):

Could change somebody's. So I always like to remind everybody, you know, the world needs you mm-hmm whatever your craft is. Like, what if we came from that point of view and just did the thing.

Angie Colee (48:42):


Laurie- Ann Murabito (48:42):

Not worrying about oh, but somebody else is already doing it. Oh, thank goodness. And then you know that there's a market for this mm-hmm

Angie Colee (48:50):

Yes. And stop judging about whether you're enough, stop comparing yourself to other people's yard sticks and oh, well, compared to that person, you, I'm gonna tell you something funny that I think that you would find amusing. So a lot of people know that I'm doing this crazy digital nomad thing, but I get caught in the comparison trap too, because first of all, it's my everyday life. So it doesn't feel quite as fantastical as every, everybody else probably sees from the outside, they see hot air balloons and Lama yoga. And I see laundry and having to move my in and out of the elevator and a screaming cat. Like I see the reality of this every day. So it's not quite as exciting to me. And then of course, like you talked about with knowing the backstage versus the polished production. I see other digital nomads going to different countries and eating exotic foods and like these well produced video documentation of their travels.

Angie Colee (49:39):

And I'm like, I forget to write about my travels all the freaking time. And I go, well, I'm not really a digital me. Those are digital nomads over there. Like they, they document, they tell people they, they change lives, all of that jazz. I'm just over here, like, yeah, let's eat some really good food today. Uh, and then one of my friends goes, you know, you're ridiculous. Right. And I was like, wait, what? I am taking aback here. She's like, there are so many people who would love to do what you're doing, even though you feel like it's not enough. So like, could you just stop it already?

Laurie- Ann Murabito (50:08):

That, she has a point mm-hmm that there are some people who are looking at your life, even though you're like, I'm like, I'm just, I'm living in a hotel right now. Mm-hmm so, but they're looking at like, wow, how courageous are you to be doing that? And again, we're all role models. Yeah. You and I have no idea who we are influencing right now. There are people who are constantly watching us mm-hmm and are probably saying, if she could overcome her shyness, maybe I can,

Angie Colee (50:39):


Laurie- Ann Murabito (50:40):

If she's got enough courage to like pick up and like just put hers, like how could I actually put my stuff in a car and travel around the country and do what she's doing? Mm-hmm what do I gotta, what, what do I have to put in place? So that maybe that could become my reality. So we're just living our lives. Mm-hmm

Angie Colee (50:40):

Laurie- Ann Murabito (51:01):

And helping other people hopefully live theirs.

Angie Colee (51:05):

I love that. I think that's the perfect note to end on for you that are living your lives, feeling like you're a little bit ordinary and like you have nothing to contribute. Just like me doing my laundry as a digital nomad thinking, this is not very exciting or sexy. You could be doing something that's very exciting or sexy to other people who see what you're doing just by living your life. So you go live that life, however, ordinary you might think, and just be full on you, full passion and take risks and chances, and put yourself out there.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (51:36):

Please say yes.

Angie Colee (51:38):

Yes. Say yes, absolutely. Oh, this is so good. And I wanna talk for like three more hours, but anyway, tell us more about your business and how to learn more about, uh, all of your speech writing. Goodness.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (51:49):

Thank you. Thank you. You can find me over on speak and stand I hang out a lot on Instagram and also LinkedIn. I have my own podcast called be in demand. Yes. And I also do offer private coaching as well as my group program, which is in demand signature speech. And it's an eight week program that helps you go from beginning to end. And by the end of the eight weeks, you'll have learned all the different parts that go into a signature speech and you will have a completed signature speech by the end of the program.

Angie Colee (52:24):

I love it. I love it. See, that's that's the skills development that we were talking about, right in action there. Just follow it step by step and develop your skills. Thank you so much for being on the show. This was such a fascinating conversation.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (52:36):

Thank you.

Laurie- Ann Murabito (52:36):

This was a great conversation. I really enjoyed this.

Angie Colee (52:39):

We're gonna have to do a part two

Laurie- Ann Murabito (52:41):


Angie Colee (52:46):

So that is it another awesome episode of permission to kick on the books. If you want to know more about the show, if you wanna know more about me Angie Colee and the mission I'm on to help entrepreneurs punch fear in the face and do big bold things, then head on over to That is all one word together, Make sure to sign up for my email list so that, you know, whenever there's a hot, fresh and ready podcast episode out for you. And also on Mondays, I like to send out a little newsletter called kick Monday's Ass I'm sure you're totally, totally surprised by that. So thank you for being here with me today. I'm Angie Colee, make sure that you share this with a friend that needs to hear this message today. Like it, share it. Comment wherever you're listening to this today and let's go kick some mess.