Permission to Kick Ass

Deanna Seymour: Breaking Free from Shiny Object Syndrome

Episode Summary

Today we’re joined by the talented Deanna Seymour, who made the transition from art teacher to graphic designer extraordinaire (transferable skills for the win). In this episode, we're diving deep into trusting your gut, embracing your own brilliance, learning from mistakes, and much more. If you’ve ever wondered whether you had enough knowledge and skill to become a go-to expert, this one’s for you.

Episode Notes

If you cringe with regret over the cash you've blown on courses, books, webinars, the list goes on… welcome to the club. We’re considering getting jackets. I've fantasized about building a time machine just to visit past Angie unleash a primal TRUST YOURSELF DAMMIT scream. But since time traveling isn’t (yet) a thing, consider this episode a friendly bitch slap of truth - you. are. enough. Listen now!

Can’t-Miss Moments From This Episode:

This one is jam-packed full of advice. Don’t miss out - listen now!

Deanna’s Bio:

Digital Marketing Strategist and host of the podcast, Eff That: Breaking the Rules of Online Business, Deanna Seymour knows the power of creativity, fun, and lettin' your freak flag fly when it comes to marketing your business.

Whether she’s hosting an online coworking sesh or helping a client get over their fear of being on camera, Deanna uses humor and empathy to build a community that helps people feel seen, heard, and ultimately more comfortable in their own skin so they can have more fun getting in front of their perfect-fit clients.

When she’s not working with clients, she’s probably callin’ out sleazy marketing tactics, hangin’ with her fam, or sneaking in some crappy reality tv!

Resources and links mentioned:

Come kick ass with me:

Episode Transcription

Angie Colee (00:03):

Welcome to Permission to kick ass. The show that gives you a virtual seat at the bar for the real conversations that happen between entrepreneurs. I'm interviewing all kinds of business owners from those just a few years into freelancing to CEOs, helming nine figure companies. If you've ever worried that everyone else just seems to get it and you're missing something or messing things up, this show is for you. I'm your host, Angie Colee, and let's get to it. Hey, welcome back to Permission to kick ass with me today is my new friend Deanna Seymour. Say hi.

Deanna Seymour (00:37):

Hello. Thank you so much for having me.

Angie Colee (00:40):

Oh my pleasure. It was, it was a journey and a half to get here too, because we had scheduling snafus and miscommunications, but we made it. We're here, we're having the chat and I am so excited.

Deanna Seymour (00:51):

We persevered. I love it.

New Speaker (00:52):

We persevered. Yeah. Well I talk about this all the time on the show. They're like, just gonna go wrong. You can't be too hard on yourself. Just find a way forward. It's the way it's gotta be. So tell us a little bit about your business and what you do.

Deanna Seymour (01:05):

So, I'm a graphic designer and content marketing strategist who helps people bring their content to life with a lot of rich, bold, quirky, sometimes visuals. Yes. So the visuals is like where my heart lies. Um, but I kinda help with some other stuff too. So that's

Angie Colee (01:22):

What I, I love that. It's interesting. Well, cuz they don't get to see the video, it's just for me be jealous. Um, I'm looking over your shoulder in the background to this big bold graphic that says what the heck, which ?

Deanna Seymour (01:33):

Yeah, my uh, one of my good friends Kate Duffy made that. Oh

Angie Colee (01:36):

Fantastic. So what got you into this line of work? How did you get to visuals and strategy?

Deanna Seymour (01:43):

Well I have been an art teacher for almost 15 years. I feel like I lost track cuz by the end I was like really tired and burnt out . So when knows how many years, over 10, probably less than 15. Um, and I taught art in high school and then towards the end of my career, elementary school. And then I was sick of it. I was done. So I was like, okay, what else can I do? And I had, while being an art teacher, had like a million different side hustles, you know, Etsy shop here, this thing here, like painting murals here. So I feel like I had had all these different businesses, A D H D, hello . And then I was like, oh actually I could help other people market their businesses and live vicariously through them. I can just see one business through but feel like it changes enough so that I'm still interested. So

Angie Colee (02:32):


Deanna Seymour (02:33):


Angie Colee (02:34):

I've noticed that a lot with some of the entrepreneur and I, you know, probably like attracts like, is a little bit at play here because I am also very A D H D. But I've seen that like I think that that's a brilliant solution for, I know that I'm gonna get bored with this. So what kind of variety can I build into this thing so that I can actually focus, like trick myself into focusing .

Deanna Seymour (02:54):

Yeah. Well and I feel like everybody talks about niching down all the time. And so I feel like at the beginning I was like, okay, the world can't handle it if I do more than one kind of design. And then quickly realized like, no, they can handle it. It's fine . Cause I was like, I am so bored just trying to stay in one little tiny lane. So now I'm like visuals, that's enough of a thing. Content and visuals. Mm-hmm. Like good enough. We'll go with that. So

Angie Colee (03:18):

Yeah, as long as you know how to talk to the people who are attracted to that and wanna work with you, that's perfect. Like, yeah, I resist with every fiber of my being niching down and I think it's probably a D H D too, where I would be so bored.

Deanna Seymour (03:33):

Well, yeah, well I kept doing it and then I would like change my mind. So then it was really confusing. I feel like for my audience also for me to be like, here's what I'm doing. Okay, no wait, I got inspired. Here's what I'm doing. I'm not doing that. Like just trying to pinpoint it down. And I'm like, what is the common thread that goes through all these things? Mm-hmm. , that's what I do. And don't try to make me narrow in anymore. I don't want to

Angie Colee (03:53):

. I love that. I think that's a brilliant solution for a very real, very common problem that we don't talk about enough in business. There's just this need for stimulation for those of us who are a little neuro spacey.

Deanna Seymour (04:05):

Yeah. I mean, I will admit that as a freelancer, sometimes when I'm in the middle, middle of a few different projects and they're kind of, I'm doing this for this, I'm doing videos for this person, I'm doing, you know, a logo for this person, I'm doing whatever. I'm kind of like, okay, I understand why people niche down so that they're just like doing what? Like it would make my systems on the backend mm-hmm. a little easier for my brain. But then the problem would be I would be so bored I would change it anyways. So you just kinda go with, with how your brain wants you to do things.

Angie Colee (04:34):

Yeah. I love that. Like, play to your strengths and play to your weaknesses almost in, in effect. And create systems that help you cope with them and maybe even turn them into a strength. I like this creative problem solving. That's what we're gonna say.

Deanna Seymour (04:48):

Yeah, exactly. Yes. And I also think sometimes when people talk about like their systems and their, you know, everything's running so smoothly sometimes I think, and I'm sort of going out on a limb here, a little controversial mm-hmm. , and maybe this isn't for everyone, but I do think sometimes it doesn't take into account what the customer actually needs. Cuz people are like really optimizing their business for like, here's what I do, here's what I offer. And they don't wanna deviate from that. But like, not everybody needs exactly the same thing. Yeah. And so I feel like a little flexibility, like I'm kind of learning to reign it in a little, like to get, like you're saying, solve it for my own brain and reign it in a little, but be flexible enough that I can actually do what my clients need, which mm-hmm. , that's random idea. An online business putting

Angie Colee (05:34):

That's sacred cow. I am happy to stomp all over the, the notion of prescriptive coaching, which I have ranted about at length. The idea that there's one solution that works for everybody, just like chaps my for some reason. Uh, so Little Southerner came out, just said, I don't know why , there's that, the, the prescriptive coaching. And then, uh, it's, it's funny because with the coaching clients that I've had before, they often get frustrated and tell me if this sounds familiar. They go, just tell me what to do. And I go, I will nuts . Uh, and if I did, I would be doing, you probably the greatest disservice of your life. I will tell you things that I have tried. I will ask you what feels good and what instinctively you're leaning toward in your business. But like, my whole goal here is to get you to trust your own gut. Cuz I can help you build a business that Angie likes, but will an Angie business work for you? I don't know. I don't know what the answer is. Yeah, you do though.

Deanna Seymour (06:31):

Yeah. Yeah. It just takes a second to get there sometimes. Mm-hmm. . And you do feel like if you just had somebody tell you what to do, it would be quicker and easier. But I do feel like it ends up being longer in the long run. Cuz then you Yes. Do the formula and then you're like, oh, I hate this. This is boxing me and this doesn't work for my brain. This doesn't, and then you have to backtrack and actually go back and do the work that you're asking people to do in the beginning. .

Angie Colee (06:53):

Oh yeah. Well, and then it kind of like, uh, this is probably the wrong way to say it, but it was like, it it almost absolves you of the responsibility a little bit to foist it off on, Hey, I got this great plan. They told me step-by-step what's due. It didn't work. Oh. Their plan was bad.

Deanna Seymour (07:09):

Yeah, that's true. I've never thought about that. It's easy to be like, oops, not me, not my problem. Yeah.

Angie Colee (07:15):

It wasn't my fault. And, and it kind of gives you an, an excuse a reason to not look critically at whatever happens. Because I, I think this was the biggest learning of my copywriting career back when I was still a copywriter, was that often, we'll look at a big thing. The whole thing is a failure. If this one aspect of it fails and specific to copy, I would turn in drafts to clients who would look at this and go, I don't like it. That's it. And it's a ground up rewrite. And I would dig in a little bit more and be like, what don't you like specific? It's okay to tell me certain words. It's okay to highlight an entire paragraph. If you tell me you hate this and you never wanna see this on a draft again, this is all good information for me to have.

Angie Colee (07:54):

You are not going to hurt my feelings. Mm-hmm. . And so we would get in there, we'd dig in deep and we'd find out that they were challenged by like two lines mm-hmm. and I would delete those lines. And so suddenly they loved everything about it and went this works. And I was like, right. See we don't have to throw everything out just because something was feeling a little bit off. And it's the same with this, this is no shade to anybody that has gone to somebody else for a business plan. But like, always train yourself to look at your piece of this. Where could you do better? What can you learn from this experience? And then I think that makes you a winner in the long run.

Deanna Seymour (08:26):

Yeah. Yeah. And it, like we've been saying too, like working for your brain and doing all this stuff for you, it's like more sustainable if it works with the way you work. So I like using it as um, like jumping off points, you know, like a good skeleton little formula. Like how do they do it? Sometimes I find too, I don't know if you ever do this or if you ever found yourself doing this, but if you look to other people too much, I've done this. Like I go down the rabbit hole, it's on social media or maybe I've like, for some reason that was participated in a bundle or somehow I've gotten on too many email lists and then I start to like think I can't do anything. Like you get frozen, you're like, okay, I'm gonna start a podcast now I have to get a court. Now I have to like look this up. Mm-hmm. when really sometimes you can just be like, okay, what do I need? Like, you can sit for a second and be like, what do I think I would need? And you can check it.

Angie Colee (09:13):


Deanna Seymour (09:13):

I start to feel like I can't do anything unless I Google it first. Or I want a sample, I want, I want an example of what I should write. And it's like mm-hmm. , I have to remind myself this

Angie Colee (09:22):

Is Yeah. You, you have the answers. As a smart, savvy consumer, and this is you dear listener. This is you Deanna. This is you, Angie, listening to herself through her monitors. Uh, you, you have the answers and you know a lot more than you're giving yourself credit for. And just because there are other smart people out there that have found a new interesting way to position things doesn't mean that you don't know things. I was actually, I was ranting with somebody the other night in the hot tub of all places. We were talking about a book, which I will not mention by name cuz I don't wanna throw shade. That's not my style. But I remember saying like, it's a very popular business book. One of my friends who I really respect raved about it. So of course I immediately went out and bought this book and I, I read it over the course of several nights and I was.

Angie Colee (10:06):

And my friend goes, well why were you off at reading this book? I'm like, because that author didn't say anything. I couldn't have, I'm that I didn't write it. I'm that the only difference between him and me is that he put out a book and I didn't mm-hmm. , he built a platform and he owned his authority and I didn't, I played small. That's what me off. There's nothing in his book that specifically was like a trigger or a indicator or anything like that. It just me off that this book exists and mine doesn't yet.

Deanna Seymour (10:39):

Yeah. Or you've like, I've taken a course before I've signed up cuz I'm like, oh, I don't know how to do that. And I take a course and I finish it, especially like a short little one. And I'm like, oh, I didn't know how to do that. . Yeah. Like, and then I get mad at myself. I'm like, why did you just buy that course? Like you could have totally done this. You just need to like slow down and think for two seconds. Like, how would I do it? And then just like start doing it. .

Angie Colee (11:02):

Yeah. Magical.

Deanna Seymour (11:03):


Angie Colee (11:03):

That's why I love the importance of like learning to trust your gut for better or for worse. And I think it helps if you adopt that mindset, that attitude of, I'm going to learn something. I know learning isn't sexy kids. I know it's not, we're Bannon books and all kinds of crazy that's, I'm not gonna get on that soapbox. But uh, there is something to be said for the school of hard knocks for the school of experience and actually going through something and learning what you can. A lot of these folks that you're buying courses from, that's what they're teaching. Mm-hmm. , they tried to thing, it worked for them. They turned around and taught it. You can actually do that too.

Deanna Seymour (11:38):

Yeah. And you could do it because your brain maybe will make up a new beautiful way to do it that could work for someone else. Like if you keep following everyone else's formulas, you're not like gonna make up your own. Which is another thing that I'm get passionate about. Yes.

Angie Colee (11:51):

Yeah. Well I, I think there's merit to both approaches, right? Because that's fun of telling my, my early coaching students that uh, nobody needs a triangle wheel. Nobody, nobody needs one. We've already established that there is a wheel and that it works really, really well. And if you want a triangle wheel, cool. But I'm willing to bet that most other people won't. Unless they're using it for like a weird art piece or something . Um, there's probably still a use for a triangle wheel. Will you sell millions of them? I don't know about that. Mm-hmm . But you could invent your own take on wheels or your hover craft, your next evolution or something like that. There is no need to invent your own version of this thing when you are just starting out and you don't know where to start. Try a formula, follow it, learn what you can adapt, improve, overcome,

Deanna Seymour (12:41):

Proceed. Mm-hmm. . Exactly. Yeah.

Angie Colee (12:44):

I know that, uh, business is a windy road and I think one of my biggest pet peeves is the fact that we get all of these miracle overnight success stories. Right. So I imagine when you've decided that visuals was your thing, that this wasn't like chick fairy dust. Everything is figured out. No.

Deanna Seymour (13:00):

. No, no, not at all. Um, oh no. Oh, surprisingly it's weird. So I can't write that in my bio. Like six seconds to six figures. I can't say that cuz it would not be true.

Angie Colee (13:10):

It's so snappy though. I wish it was true.

Deanna Seymour (13:13):

I know. Um, no, I mean it's funny cuz all the stuff that we're talking about, like I get a little ranty about courses cuz I spent way too much money on courses in the beginning. Um mm-hmm. just not trusting myself. Like, I mean, I told you, I mean I was an art teacher for over a decade and like I'm buying courses on how to teach people online and I'm like, I went to school for that. Like I've been teaching people for 10 years. Like why did I just spend $2,000 on a course that's gonna teach me how to teach people? Mm-hmm. when I've been a teacher for a decade. But I was like thinking, oh well this is online. So I don't, I don't know how to teach people online. I don't know how to teach grownups. Like I only taught kids. And so I feel like those voices can get in your head and feel like well they know more.

Deanna Seymour (13:54):

And when I say voices I also mean sneaky sales pages. sometimes. Yes. Um, you know, they sort of make you feel like this is gonna be the answer. This is gonna be my six seconds to six figures. And I'm like, okay, I'm a poor little teacher, I don't know anything about the business world. Let me buy this cuz it's gonna work in two seconds and it's gonna be super fast. And like, who doesn't want a bunch of fast money? I'll tell you, sign me up. Uh, but unfortunately it, they got a bunch of fast money . I did not get what they promised me. Um, you know, and it took a few, a few courses and like I'm trying to like, there's like three courses I took right away that probably add up to like $5,600, which on a teacher's salary

Angie Colee (14:39):


Deanna Seymour (14:40):

A lot and a lot of money. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . Um, one of them I didn't even like, um, tell my husband I was getting, he was in the hospital at the time. Oh no. Crohn's disease. So was getting like a, um, restructuring, I don't know, whatever. He was in there for a while and I, it was the first course I bought and I just wasn't, I was like so naive looking back, I'm like man, I got a lot more edgy and like a lot more mad now . But I had no idea that people would like lie like straight up lie and be like, the cart is closing, you know, and a month later I look and I'm like, oh this is evergreen. Like you Yeah. That was a lie. So I thought the cart was closing, Matt was in the hospital and I just really thought like, this is what's gonna like change our loneliness.

Deanna Seymour (15:22):

Cause also talk about feeling stressed out. Like we're broke, he's in the hospital. We all know the fear of like how much is this gonna cost? Like mm-hmm. medical bills. Like you don't even know grab bag. Like you're just gonna get stuff and then hope you can afford it afterwards. Like Yep. And so I watched this webinar and fell into the funnel and then the cart was closing and he was in the hospital. So I just, you know, bought it without talking to him. Which I feel like, I mean I clearly remember the conversation in the hospital room where I was like, I bought that course. Um, sorry. Like oh. And he was like the parent who doesn't get mad but is like, I'm just disappointed. Like he wasn't, he wasn't mad, which was almost like worse, you know? I just felt

Angie Colee (16:06):

Yeah, that's the heartbreaker

Deanna Seymour (16:08):

. I know. So, and like I said, I mean it's wild cuz that wasn't my last course that I purchased, but it was like, you know, part of my journey. I'm not too mad about it. I mean I do like to help people like notice like is that really true? Do you really think that's gonna, you know, cause some of these sales pages are like very convincing. Mm-hmm. , but also very like how do you know that when they don't know anything about you or your business? I'm like, these are some pretty hefty promises for someone you've never even met. That's just reading your sales page. Um Right.

Angie Colee (16:41):

I think that's why so many of us get uncomfortable with sales because of the times that we've been burned. Yeah. But I'm like, if you know that that's something that's important to you, that's something that you can stand on. I decided a long time ago, I can't sell. I can't do it if I don't believe in this product, you will not see my name attached to it. Period. I will recuse myself. I had that happen where I had to walk away from a five figure retainer once when I had first interviewed with this particular client to help run his marketing team. Uh, I had told him, this is what I stand for. This is who I like to work with. And I like to feel good at the end of the day because I know how marketing has been used for manipulation for evil.

Angie Colee (17:19):

Mm-hmm. in this world. Mm-hmm. in the past. I understand how powerful this stuff is and I want to do it to improve people's lives. So like, you've got good products. I like this. So he comes back to me a few months later and he wants to, I'm trying to figure out how to tell this story without giving away anything confidential. He wants to enter into a partnership to promote one of those big data aggregators. Mm-hmm. , one of the, you know what I'm talking about, one of those big data aggregators that somehow has very scary details about your life. Um, and I was like, okay, I'm gonna keep an open mind. I'm not gonna assume anything about this. I'm gonna take it for the test run, use the login credentials. And sure enough it had everything about me enough to the point where I went and found one of those data scrubbing services and signed up immediately.

Angie Colee (18:04):

Like I was that creeped out. Yeah. And I sat with it for a little while cause I'm like, this guy's paying me a lot of money. Can I afford to walk away from a five figure retainer? This is, you know, he obviously feels very strongly about this. Like wrestling with myself, second guessing myself. And at the end of the day I went, no, like I don't feel good about this service. Sure. There are probably people out there that are using it for legit reasons and not nefarious reasons, but just the fact that I know that there are a lot more people than I feel comfortable with using it for nefarious reasons, using it for stalker reasons. Mm-hmm. is enough for me to say I can't sell this and I have no ill will against you client if you feel very strongly that you need to sell this. But I can't and I can't be involved in this project. Mm-hmm. . And I was, you know, like I know that a lot of people have an IMP impression, an impression that I have no problem speaking my mind and saying whatever. But that was, it took me several days to work up the courage to say that I can't be involved in this. Um, and we wound up not being able to work together in the long term. That was, you know, a different but related story.

Deanna Seymour (19:08):

Mm-hmm. .

Angie Colee (19:10):

Yeah. Around what we stand for and what's more important money or people. But yeah, I'm gonna fall down on the side of people every single time.

Deanna Seymour (19:17):

Yeah. Yeah. Well that's what, yeah, looking from the beginning I was just like, but why would people do that? You know? Or like online courses where I would start to feel like, do we care? Do we care if the person needs this course or doesn't need it? No. We just want their money or like mm-hmm. , do we care if we can actually help them? Yes or no? No we don't. We just want their money. Okay. Are we ever gonna like know their name or know anything about their business? Like no. Okay. It's just passive income. We're not gonna like help them. So coming from a teacher background, I was like, all of this feels really wrong. Like, we need to like actually care about our students and help them. And I mean, I know there's a place for courses, especially in the online world, but I feel like I have sort of like a, um, scale in my head of like, how much time am I getting?

Deanna Seymour (20:06):

Like, is the teacher even gonna know my name? How much is it? Like there's, you know, there's a lot of like $9 offers, $10, like 20, 50. Okay, cool. You don't have to know my name for $50. Like that's okay. Workshop. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not psycho, I don't want everybody to know my name. But I think if I'm giving you a few thousand dollars, I don't think it's like too much to ask for you to like know who I am or like what I do. I don't know. Mm-hmm. , it just seems wild to me. Yeah. Yeah. I crunched some numbers one time cuz I was a elementary art teacher. Mm-hmm. . So I saw the whole school. So there was like about 500 kids and I'll say that I knew most of their names and I mean obviously like each year I was there like, then you only have to learn kindergarten.

Deanna Seymour (20:45):

Like you can keep building on what, you know, my first year I was like, oh my gosh, how am I gonna know everyone's name? So, you know, but I was like, okay, 500. Like I had 500 people in my sphere who I still kind of knew their names and I knew who was like whose brother or sister. Like we can do it. It's just do. Yeah. They want, do they want to do it? You know? Cuz they're like, oh well you can't possibly know everyone if it's this many students. And I'm like, Hmm. I think you can, I mean, even when I taught high school, I had like 120 kids all that I saw every day. That's a lot of people. Yeah. I like 20 people. Gimme $2,000. I would love that . Like, you know. No kidding. You can learn their names.

Angie Colee (21:23):

Well yeah. And you can develop the skills to be able to prompt the folks that feel a little bit shyer. Right. Because it's easy to get to know the people who are standouts, who are extroverts, who really, um, and this, it sounds bad, but, but it's not, that's not the way that I intend it for, for like the people who recognition is a currency. Like they really want to be noticed for going above and beyond. And that's very important to them. And again, that's not a judgment. I have definitely been that me, me, me. I have the answer person in, in a class before. Yeah. Um, so like if you can get past those folks who will step up and make themselves known and reach out to the people who struggle to be known or they're uncomfortable being known and make them feel welcome too. Mm-hmm. Then you've got something really special.

Deanna Seymour (22:08):

Yeah. I just like care about, it's like, I'm like, so sue me. I care about people. Sorry, everybody. Like I started in the beginning of this journey, I was kind of like into online business and then I was like, okay, I gotta get outta here cuz I do care about people and I guess that means I'm bad at business. Mm-hmm. . And so I did kind of step away a little and then I came back and it was like a whole new world. Like I took six weeks off of all social media. Oh. And I feel like when I came back, I guess I taught the algorithm that I like, you know, people like you, like online business, like rebels, anti hussle, like all these different things that I was engaging with. I guess the algorithm learned like, okay, Deanna likes these people, not these people.

Deanna Seymour (22:48):

And I was like mm-hmm. , okay, I can breathe. This feels good. This feels like people, like you were saying kind of it turns your stomach like then you think you hate sales. Yeah. And now I'm like, oh, I wanna make sales all day. Like I can make you beautiful graphics, you're gonna be so excited. Like, my clients love what I make. Their stuff is popping. Like, I you wanna pay me? I love money. Yeah. Like, give it to me like, then I'm like, oh, it wasn't the actual like sales, it was the way the sales were being done. Mm-hmm. and I didn't wanna be a part of, and I'm like proud of myself for not wanting to be a part of that cause Yeah. You know,

Angie Colee (23:19):

I, I found myself on that end of the internet when I first started out too. I, I wound up in a very like masculine mm-hmm. Sales forum, uh, full of what I like to call the slingers. And I thought that that was just how business was done. Like we all brag about how big it is, we whip it out and we show each other what we've, what we've accomplished and you know. Yeah. Well we've been given naturally. I didn't enhance this or alter this in any way. And then it just so happened, you know, thankfully, like I said, I don't think any time that you spend anywhere is wasted. As long as you're taking that I'm gonna learn something from this, I'm going to learn something that I can use from this. I think that's where a lot of people get messed up in and drop out is that they find themselves in a bad experience and then they go, this was a failure.

Angie Colee (24:06):

Instead of what can I learn? So what I learned from that community is there's still good people even in a community like that mm-hmm find them, build relationships with them, they will lead you out to other people like them because birds of a feather flock together. And so that's like if you've got a series of bad clients, you need to get rid of the bad clients because they're bringing more bad clients to you. That's the news flash. All you need is one good one. And the courage to say, Hey, do you know anybody else, like anybody else floating around in your circles? Cuz I happen to ridiculously love working with you and I figure you've probably got friends like you that I would enjoy working with too. And who could probably use my help. Would love an introduction if you've got one.

Deanna Seymour (24:47):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That whole ideal client avatar thing. Mm-hmm. that was really like confusing to me in the beginning too. But now that I have clients, I'm like literally I can, like in my mind I'm like, it's these actual people that I work with that I'm like, yes, you are my ideal client. Like yes, please refer me to your friends. It's exactly what you said. But once until I had clients, I was like, I dunno anyone who will pay me money mm-hmm. my ideal client like in the beginning. And then you can work your way up to being like, no, these are what, this is the kind of projects I like working on. These are kinda people I like working with.

Angie Colee (25:19):

And I think that's where everybody starts. Like whatever will get me money. Cuz I know I, I started there too. Mm-hmm. , I was on all of those like freelance sites, Upwork and e-Lance and I think that's what became freelancer. Whatever. There's a whole bunch of 'em. You know what they are if you're listening to this and I got paid to do editing people's, uh, manuscripts and screenplays. I got paid to put together people's business plans and to write a live production script for the Ms. Black USA pageant. Anything anybody would throw money at me for I would do. I would write. Yeah. And as I started to take on more and more projects. Right. I think that's kind of the progression. If I could dare simplify this a little bit, you jump in and you take anything that will pay you mm-hmm. , you fill your, your client roster, you overload yourself.

Angie Colee (26:05):

You start to burn out and go, this isn't the thing. What needs to change here? And then you can step back and look at, I like this project, hate that project. Like this person don't like that person. Mm-hmm. . And start to make some instead of guesses like you would if you're jumping in trying to figure out your ideal client avatar before you've ever done any work mm-hmm. , you're actually using real data and real experience to go, that's not working for these reasons, this is working. I think these are the reasons. How can I find more of this thing that's working? And then you start to stumble your way toward clarity and a niche of some sort.

Deanna Seymour (26:38):

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I think it's funny too that you pointed out, um, kind of getting to that burnout place cuz it's so easy to hear people say like, oh, like I, I started to notice everybody's stories were like warnings of like, this is gonna happen, so, so raise your prices or do whatever mm-hmm. . But I kind of feel like you ha you almost have to like do it yourself. Like you almost have to go through it because I do feel like everyone's story is, their prices are really high now, but they talk about the time when it was too low and they got burnt out. And I'm like, I think, I don't know. Cuz sometimes I'm like, I think it's okay to start with low prices and get burnt out cuz you absolutely feel good when you get that money. Like, even though it's like not enough, but then when you start feeling like resentful cuz you're like, wait, actually my stuff is good.

Deanna Seymour (27:25):

Like mm-hmm. , I think about it like, um, hairstylist, I had a friend who was an apprentice and so she cut my hair and it was like 25 bucks and I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. You understand our aesthetic. Like maybe she's not technically the best yet. She's still learning. Um, and then we kind of like lost touch. I mean she just, she went to a salon like out in the suburbs and I lived in the city so I was like, oh, okay. She's way out there. And then before my wedding I was like, you know what, I'm gonna go back to her because I'm gonna treat myself. I know she's at the fancy salon now and I remember I brought a hundred dollars bill for some reason, I don't even know why I would've had a hundred dollars bill, but I was like, I'm gonna get my haircut and I'm gonna get a product.

Deanna Seymour (28:04):

Like I really thought, I was like living large, I was gonna treat myself. And then the haircut was $85 and I was like, oh my god. But you know, a little bit of time away and a lot of practice later. Mm-hmm. , she's doing that and I mean, I got married almost seven years ago, eight years ago and now she's like $250 a haircut. So I'm like, it's okay to be an appre. Like it's okay to be an apprentice. And I would absolutely feel like I was an apprentice when I started. That's why I bought the courses. Yeah. Cause I didn't feel like I really knew what I was doing and now I know what I'm doing, so I charge more and I have less clients and it's awesome. Mm-hmm. . But I think everybody kind of has to go through that growing pain.

Angie Colee (28:39):

Oh, I totally agree. I I, you know, if, if you think that you are above going through this, I'm going to ask you what happens when you tell a small child, don't touch that it's hot

Deanna Seymour (28:51):


Angie Colee (28:51):

Don't touch that. You're gonna burn yourself. First of all, you've just made touching that thing irresistible by telling them not to. Second of all, they have no idea what hot is. Mm-hmm. , they've never experienced it before. They don't know what a burn feels like and why it should be avoided. They don't have the context. So I'm not saying we need to go around burning small children. That is not what I'm saying here at all, . But what I am saying is sometimes you have to touch the stove and get burned to understand what hot means. And so I will never tell you that it is a mistake in the course of your business to take on too many projects to burn yourself out, to take on too much work, to take on the wrong work. Like all of this is part of the process that helps you to understand what these business coaches are saying. Help you understand you help you understand who you can help the best and what's suited to you. Like it's all part of the process. You're not doing anything wrong. That's the lesson here.

Deanna Seymour (29:43):

one time, um, a business coach was like, okay, so what are you gonna charge for that? And I was like, I guess this much. And she was like, okay, why? And I was like, I guess because I love underpricing myself and overgiving and then feeling resentful . Like, I was like, oh my gosh,

Angie Colee (29:56):


Deanna Seymour (29:56):

Wow. I need to raise it. Like in the conversation I was like, I'm doing it again. Like I'm giving away too much. I know I'm gonna be mad because like, I kept scope creeping myself cuz I get excited mm-hmm. and I'm like, oh, I have a new idea. Like now we should also add this, we should add this. And I was like, okay, how can I, I need some verbiage to be like, Hey, also I thought of this cool idea. If you would like to do it, just let me know . Like I can, yeah, I can like add it on if you want me to. Uh, but I just kept adding and adding and being like mad at them. They didn't even like ask for it. . Mm-hmm so funny. I was like, can't stop making cool things. I'm so glad that you

Angie Colee (30:33):

Brought that up because that is such a common trap that I see people falling into. And I've, I've definitely been there myself before, but it's like we want, we love these people, we love the work we're doing. We wanna keep them happy for a long time. We're excited about this new thing we're doing. So we offer them things that they didn't ask for and then the resentment starts to creep in. Mm-hmm. . And like, that's just such a simple thing to fix that we often just feel like, but if I ask them for more money, then that sales voice kick asss in and says, well, but then they're gonna think that I'm greedy and that I don't wanna help them. Meanwhile they're getting an outrageous advantage from being able to get all of this stuff that you would charge other people for for free. So like, uh, I mean I remember running the math with a very, very smart friend of mine who was like, had a huge retainer with this person. Um, and I'm trying to like anonymized details here too. I was like, basically your retainer equated to, they had you full-time working on their stuff around the clock for less than 50 grand a year. Mm-hmm. , that sounds like a really great deal for them.

Deanna Seymour (31:40):


Angie Colee (31:41):

Mm-hmm. . And I had to point that out to them that like, do you feel good being reduced to that and recognizing how much you're giving and not being compensated accordingly. And then having them like make extra demands on your time because that's what they think they're entitled to. Like this. It's all a learning process. You're in business with humans. Humans make mistakes. Humans say the wrong thing. But like we ultimately are responsible for teaching other people how to treat us. Mm-hmm. . And if you treat somebody that uh, all you have to do is ask and I will bend over backwards. That's what they're going to do because they're humans. Yeah. Wouldn't you do the same if you were like, well I can get this free resource. Cool. I'm gonna go ahead and ask, I'm gonna ask for that. Yeah.

Deanna Seymour (32:23):

Or especially like with me, I'm like, no problem. And so they're thinking like they're trusting what I said. Okay. It's no problem. Deanna doesn't care. She's fine with it. And on the other side you're like, yeah. Um, so yeah, that's something I've definitely had to learn the hard way. Mm-hmm. , I'm like, were you just talking about me? Cuz that happened to me early on too. And then when I actually approached them about it and was like, there needs to be less work or more compensation or, and I was still like new so I was being flexible. I was like, or like looser turnaround times cuz they were also getting pretty tight with the deadlines, which I'm like, well now I feel like you're basically boxing me into like when I have to work when I'm a freelancer, I should be able to do it.

Deanna Seymour (33:02):

Like, so there was like a few options on the table and then the next day I got an email saying, we will no longer be needing your services . And I was like, okay, well whatever. But at least I was like, thank goodness mm-hmm. , I'm out of there. Like I don't wanna keep doing, I couldn't keep up with it. And they kept adding and they would've just kept adding until I said stop. Yeah. And the interesting thing thing too, oh sorry, go ahead. Oh, well they, um, when I came in they said the last designer left them in a lurch is how they put it. And so I was doing a lot of work to like make up for the last designer leaving an A lurch mm-hmm. . And then I was thinking after I got fired, oh, is that what happened to the last person that left an lurch? Like they said, whoa, you're taking advantage of me. And then you just got rid of him and then you mm-hmm. Found the next sucker in line until, until I was like onto it. I mean I guess that's the way they could run it, but Oh, it's tricky there. And again, I'm just naive. Like you just don't know. We don't know what you don't know, you know? Yeah. Now I would spot that way earlier.

Angie Colee (34:00):

Yeah. And that's, you know, that goes back to the context and that goes back to trusting the value that you deliver to people. Because I think that there one, oh God, there's so many good themes that are coming up. I'm having trouble picking the first one I want to explore one, if you're listening to this, odds are you grew up in a capitalist society like I did. Which is where, you know, at least here in the United States, we were raised to be very good employees. Mm-hmm. . So most of us have, and I know how to think like an employee filter, meaning if you're entering entrepreneurship for the first time, you don't know how to think like a business owner, you only have an employee filter. So you might be making decisions like working for someone full-time for less than a full-time wage, uh, being available too much, taking too many calls, taking too many meetings, adding on too much extra work because that's what you've been trained to do as a stellar employee.

Angie Colee (34:50):

It also means that the person on the other end who is taking advantage of you in that way, and they may be doing it consciously, they may be doing it unconsciously because they also have an employee filter. Right. Um, they're walking a very dangerous line, especially here in the United States. They're opening themselves up for lawsuits and litigation for treating you like an employee instead of a contractor. And I think when you spoke up and said, I'm a contractor mm-hmm. and I have my own business to run and these are my terms, and they went, oh, you're not behaving like an employee. Mm-hmm. , you're you're done.

Deanna Seymour (35:26):

Yeah. You're gonna be a pain in our butt outta here. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . Yep.

Angie Colee (35:31):

One of the like, it's not that hard to hold those boundaries, it's just very uncomfortable. Mm-hmm. . And so one of the easiest scripts that I teach people when they're facing scope creep is like, yeah, I'm happy to add that in. So what I can do is it'll be this price, I'll, I'll start on that as soon as we finish this piece of the project and I can have that to you by date. How does that sound? Mm-hmm. and yeah, it's easily 50 50 that they go, sure. Add it on, send me the invoice. Or they go, oh crap, I didn't know it was gonna cost that much. Uh, nevermind, it's not as urgent as we thought. So like putting a price on something and notice how none of that was like, listen here, head. Mm-hmm. , you don't get to add more work to my plate.

Angie Colee (36:09):

It like I didn't come at it from a defensive. I came at it from assuming that they, they know they want a thing and they understand that they're working with an independent contractor and that I get paid for the things that I do for them and this is a thing that I would be doing for them. So if all of this logic holds, then I get to tell them that thing will cost this. Mm-hmm. let me know how you'd like to proceed. And if they have a reaction to the thing costing money, they're either being wildly inappropriate and ridiculous or it was just like a naive, oh, I didn't know that cost extra. Okay, cool. That's fine. We don't need it.

Deanna Seymour (36:39):

Yeah. Like yeah, like you're saying, I don't think it's always like someone trying to like literally be a creep when they're scope creeping and they're just, they have an idea and they're like, oh what if, what about this? Mm-hmm. And sometimes they have, like you're saying, they have no idea. So I think that's a great way to respond. Yeah.

Angie Colee (36:53):

Nine times outta 10 clients have no idea how things work. And I think that's the another big trap that we fall into as especially creative service providers that like they know how to work with a designer or they know how to work with a copywriter. Mm-hmm. , I know I had this big fantasy of I would find clients and I would somehow sell them on services I didn't know to offer yet. Uh, and they would just come to me with assignments and tell me what they needed done and I would go do it and it would be fabulous. Uh, I have since learned that that is not the way children, that is not the way you have to come to them and say, okay, so this is who I am, this is who I help, this is how I do the thing. Here's what I need from you to make that happen. And I basically have to grab their hand and say, Hey, we're gonna climb this mountain together. Come with me. I'll show you how.

Deanna Seymour (37:36):

Yeah. Well as a designer it's funny cuz sometimes like there's not like a specific right answer and uh, coming from a art teacher background where I encourage children to like not make it just like the example, like what it's hard for me sometimes I want to show them extra options and I'm like, you know what? Their brain can't handle it. Like, I need to sit here, I need to pick the best option and that's because that's what they're paying me for. But mm-hmm. , it is tempting sometimes, like I just, I'm like, oh, but what if they might like that purple better or whatever. Like I just Yeah. Want to show it and I'm like, you know what? It's just gonna overwhelm them. They don't know what to pick. I just need to pick it for them. Yeah. Just make it easier. Yeah.

Angie Colee (38:11):

It's so funny because it it like, I don't know how often I've talked about the pitchfork mob, um, which is another Dan danger zone. If you go to freelancer groups online and you ask something like, is this interaction a red flag? Uh, spoiler alert, almost everybody that's ever been burns will come outta the woodwork to tell you it's a scam you're being taken advantage of. And like what you were talking about earlier is that may or may not be true. We can't know somebody else's intentions because we're not in their heads. And if we haven't asked them directly, is this the intent here? Am I missing something? Uh, you're just assuming. Right? And so it could be this instance of misunderstanding, miscommunication and it could have been a relationship that you salvaged if you didn't walk in here like, look here, head, you don't get to ask me for more work. Mm-hmm. , it's a completely different energy from, okay, cool, so I hear that you need this thing. Walk me through that. Like what led to this or Sure. I'm happy to add that it's going to cause this like be their partner that solves the problem with them instead of being the person that fights against them.

Deanna Seymour (39:16):

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great, um, that's a great tip. I'm like, I need to like write this down. That's, that's one sentence that's a really easy email reply. Mm-hmm. To be like, yeah, sure. Just yep.

Angie Colee (39:30):

I like to think like, the thing that helps me remember to get in the right head space, especially when I'm getting aggravated is, is um, it's you and me versus the problem, not you and me against each other. And that really helps me keep the right head space, especially when they get frustrated cuz they don't know what, I don't know. They're really excited about this idea or they got a course too that tells them that they need to completely change direction on this project we've been working on for six months, . So my goal is not to convince them they're wrong. My goal is to be their trusted advisor as somebody that they hired for my expertise. It is not to beat them over the head until they agree with me on something. Mm-hmm. . So like, I actually have, I need to probably put this out as a lead magnet or something.

Angie Colee (40:08):

I have like a handy dandy decision tree framework where I'm like, here's where I will fight for something with a client and here's where I will let it go. And hint, 80% of the time it's a let it go situation. Mm-hmm. , I want to pick the hill I die on and it better well be important. It's not gonna be a Oxford comma. Mm-hmm. , I'm not going to fight them to the death over whether the oxford comma is a thing. I just don't care enough. And that is not going to impact my work enough to where I feel like wasting the energy on this battle. However, if they come in and say, we need to completely scrap everything that we've done and go in this direction instead, I'm going to say, okay, walk me through that. Help me understand. Okay, knowing what I know about that, here's the pros, here's the cons, here's what I would do in your situation, what do you think? Mm-hmm. , it's their business and their money and they get to blow it up if they feel like it, but not without me telling them what direction I think they should go first.

Deanna Seymour (41:00):

Yeah. That's a good point.

Angie Colee (41:02):

I fell into that trap too, of thinking, well you, you hired me for my expertise and you need to listen to everything I said. No, you will, you will never control another human being. Not through a magic contract, not through the perfect persuasive words you will never, ever control a human being and trying to do. It'll make you crazy. Mm-hmm.

Deanna Seymour (41:20):

, go do it. . Yeah. Yeah. Make them cranky. Make you crazy. Like it's not gonna end well. Mm-hmm.

Angie Colee (41:26):

Smart. So I don't know why I got on on that tangents, but that was fun. Let's go back to you and your business. Um, I really loved, and what I wrote down here were two things that I wanted to circle back to. Transferable skills and your little reset. So transferable skills is something that I wanna shout from the rooftops because it didn't occur to me that the way I think about this is a little bit different from the way I think most people do. When I got my first copywriting job, I decided I'm going to use everything that I've done to date as an example of why I'm qualified for this job. And I just wrote up a resume that said, yeah, I've waited tables, I've taught kids math, uh, I've, I've read scripts for, uh, studio executives. I've written rich kids college papers and here's why this makes me an excellent copywriter.

Angie Colee (42:14):

, I sold credit cards on the floor of Home Depot. Yeah. On the surface, none of these jobs look like they make any sense for what you're asking me to do. But here's why I am the perfect person. And it took about 300 applications before someone said, yeah, I can see I that makes a strange amount of sense. I would like to give you a chance. It's like, but I think we often underestimate and that that's how we, we fall into this. Like, I need another course trap. We don't give ourselves enough credit for what we've already done and what we've already accomplished. And I just wanna make that into a flag that I can wrap myself around in. You're already smart enough, you already have the skills.

Deanna Seymour (42:48):

Yeah. You probably learned the whole thing about letting it go from being a server. Like, you know what I mean? Like all of those things mm-hmm. add together to make you the amazing person you are and do help contribute to all the work you do moving forward. Mm-hmm. like you've been talking about, learning from your mistakes, learning along the way. So like everything we learn brings us to where we are today.

Angie Colee (43:08):

Well it's the same thing with, with what you said about like, and then I realized I'm already a teacher. Mm-hmm. . So like why am I parsing this into, I'm a teacher over here, but I'm not a teacher over here. And it doesn't count over here, but it counts over there. Like, I was a writer when I was writing Rich Kids Kid College papers. Mm-hmm. , was it entirely ethical? Mm. I reconciled it with myself by saying I'm being paid to write a thing. What they do with it is on them. . There's a reason why I don't write rich kids college papers anymore. No. And now we have AI for that anyway, so I would be outta work, but

Deanna Seymour (43:42):

Oh gosh. I know. Ugh.

Angie Colee (43:44):

Yeah. Like looking for reasons to do a thing instead of reasons that you're not qualified for a thing. That's my favorite creative exercise and I'm gonna highly recommend it to everybody listening. Yes. And then I also wanted to bring up the, the six weeks off social media, the reset and unpack that a little bit because you know, we, we do talk about this in creative circles a lot, the need to actually build space to create instead of consuming and the danger zone of becoming too much of a consumer. So like let's dig into that a little bit. I'm just gonna throw you into the deep end. Yeah,

Deanna Seymour (44:13):

No, um, well it was funny cuz it was actually right. It was the summer, it was May, and then school gets out in June and I wasn't going back in the fall. So again my poor husband, like, he's so nice. He was like, okay, I'm just trying to understand like you're gonna start a business where you help people on social, social media, but you're gonna get off all social media for indefinitely. Like, okay, is that gonna work? Like, like trying to be supportive of being like, what are you thinking? And I was like, I don't know, I just have to get off it. I feel like at that point I was on Facebook and I feel like lots of people were saying, oh you need a Facebook group. So then I was like, okay, I need a Facebook group. And then I was trying to like, I was trying to plan it all out so I wouldn't act, I didn't wanna do it, so it was like, mm-hmm , what can I do that's like Monday, whatever Tuesday tips or what?

Deanna Seymour (45:00):

I was just trying to like automate it as much as I could cuz I didn't actually want to do it. Mm-hmm. , then I was on Instagram, which as a former photographer and graphic designer, like that's kind of my favorite, was my favorite place and it still is to be honest. Mm-hmm. . Um, and then I was on TikTok, um, and people were saying like, post three a day. So I was like trying to do that cuz I was like, okay, the end of the year's coming, like, I'm not going back to teaching. Like I better hurry up and grow this business, you know? And I just, one night I remember we wanted to like watch TV and I had to record one more TikTok really fast my third one of the day and it was like so silly and I was like, what am I doing?

Deanna Seymour (45:36):

I just want a break from all of it. And also like, honestly even like cousins fighting about politics or whatever, like the world, I just was like, get me outta here. Mm-hmm. , I need a break. And um, oh, and I had an Instagram for my podcast and an Instagram for myself. It was like just too much and I didn't wanna do any of it. Yeah. So I stopped it all and I was like, I'm gonna be on podcasts, like that's gonna be my way to get in front of new people. It's gonna be fine. Um, and I started like researching around and listening to more podcasts and then like trying to like learn more about the podcast people. I would go to their website and then usually click on their Instagram. Mm-hmm. and eventually the computer was like, you need to log in.

Deanna Seymour (46:15):

And I was like, ah, you're trying to bully me into getting back on Instagram. And then that made me even more mad. Mm-hmm. . So they stayed off even longer and I did do some podcast interviews, but eventually I started feeling like, okay, I kind of miss Instagram. Mm-hmm like I do wanna be somewhere. And so I just went back to Instagram and, but now, I mean that was a few years ago and now I'm like on LinkedIn I tried to do TikTok again. Like, it sucks you back. It sucks you back in cuz you're like mm-hmm . Okay, okay. You listen to a podcast and it sounds so cool and the person loves TikTok and you're like, I should give TikTok another chance. And so I, my coach was like, do not delete it. You have some videos up there, let it ride, but you don't have to add to it. And cause I was like, I'm off, I gotta get back off. Only, only Instagram feels good to me. Mm-hmm. at this point. Mm-hmm. and maybe LinkedIn. LinkedIn still is like, I think becoming more interesting to me. So Yeah. But just do what you

Angie Colee (47:06):

Want. Well that's good. Yeah. And you may go through seasons where that changes where you're like, I don't wanna do this, I wanna take a break for a little while. I wanna see if I can miss it. You can always add things back in. Cutting something out like for now is not mm-hmm. , that's my favorite thing in working with, with students, you can undo just about any decision that you make, obviously except for, you know, like life ending ones. Uh, can't really undo that one. But I used to tell people, uh, I literally one year just renewed a lease and then my then partner and I decided to move in together and I had to break the lease. Was it painful? Yes. Was it expensive? Yes. Was it something that I was able to take care of in an hour and then be done with?

Angie Colee (47:46):

Absolutely not. But it was a decision that could be made and then be unmade and that, you know, you have more power to do that in your business than you think. You don't have to agonize over things and some, and in fact, making expensive mistakes like that will teach you to trust your gut a little bit more than next time. Like, ah, I knew I probably should have gone month to month and waited to see cuz I got the indication that we're probably gonna be moving in together, but then I wasn't sure mm-hmm. and then I was like worried about affordability, so I just went ahead and said, nah. And then it cost me a hell of a lot more to have made that move instead of just like, letting it ride, so, you know.

Deanna Seymour (48:22):

Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, and yeah, six weeks off I feel like as, as like, sad as it sounds like nothing really changed. I don't think anyone really even missed me that much. mm-hmm. . It was like, oh my gosh, it just like went on without me. And then when I came back, yeah, it was like, it was like, I had been off for like a weekend and it was six weeks. It was like, yeah, you can take a break and it will be fine. And it was like a lot more clarity for me. Like you're saying, consuming it, you know? Mm-hmm. when you scroll Instagram and everybody's like, do this hashtag routine, do this thing, do this thing, do this thing. And you're like, but the last person said do this . And you're like, oh my gosh. Now I have no idea what to do. I'm paralyzed. Uh, yeah, just get off.

Angie Colee (49:01):

It was interesting, I was talking to actually another designer last night at dinner, um, and I had told her I have all these crazy ideas for stuff I wanna do, but then I get that old corporate voice in my head that says, that's unprofessional. Like, I wanted to make a stupid , I wanna make a stupid TikTok talking about my love of food. Uh, as Whitney Houston would, would she be like, eat with somebody , I really wanna snack with somebody. Yeah. With somebody who loves food. Right. Just make my own version of that. And I'm like, I can't figure out how the hell to tie that into a business context and be professional. And she was like, why do you have to be? I was like, right, right. I teach this stuff all the time and I still fall into this trap.

Deanna Seymour (49:42):

Yeah, me too. It'll get you. Mm-hmm. . Well please make that, please make that TikTok . That TikTok just saying,

Angie Colee (49:50):

All right, maybe I just need to go out there and throw myself off the cliff and go ahead and do that. I

Deanna Seymour (49:55):

Mean, if you need me to like be in it too, we, I can snack on something. I mean, we can team up maybe. Who knows? ,

Angie Colee (50:02):

I'll tag you. I do love a snack. You, we can stitch it

Deanna Seymour (50:04):

? Yes.

Angie Colee (50:05):

Yeah. Oh man. I just realized that we've been going at this for like an hour, so I think we need to set up a part two because it sounds like ranting galore is what's gonna happen when we get together and I love it.

Deanna Seymour (50:17):

Yes. I'm here for it. Snacks and ranting. I'm here for

Angie Colee (50:20):

Snacks and ranting and random Whitney Houston interludes. Like what more is there that you could ask for in a a, in a single podcast episode? So I'm going to cut it a little bit short, but we're gonna say that we're gonna do a follow up here and now I'm gonna promise one. So tell us a little bit more about your business and where people can connect with you and learn more about you.

Deanna Seymour (50:40):

All right. So like I said, the main place I hang out is on Instagram and my name over there is, uh, the, at the Deanna Seymour. I don't know why I would like turned weird for a second. , um, I was like, got all nervous about my Instagram handle. Um, and yeah, I'm just like the girl to go to. If you want to really push the envelopes with your visuals, if you go to my website, deanna, you will see that it is all kinds of colors. Like you just did a Whitney Houston reference. I feel like I have a little Janet Jackson reference Yes. On my website. So if you're ready to let your freak flag fly and you want your visuals to match it, I'm your gal just saying mm-hmm. ,

Angie Colee (51:17):

This is the, this is the kind of business that I want more of. Weird and wonderful and freak flags everywhere. Yes. Let's do it. We're gonna make it happen. So thank you so much for being on the show. I'm gonna make sure that they have clickable links in the show notes and stay tuned for part two everyone. Oh my

Deanna Seymour (51:33):

Gosh. Thanks for having me.

Angie Colee (51:36):

That's all for now. If you wanna keep that kick ass energy high, please take a minute to share this episode with someone that might need a high octane dose. If you could do it. Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe to the Permission to kick ass podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you stream your podcast. I'm your host, Angie Colee, and I'm here rooting for you. Thanks for listening and let's go kick ass some.