Permission to Kick Ass

Episode 53: Abbie Nwaocha

Episode Summary

Today’s guest is Abbie Nwaocha, and V1 of her business is a great example of what NOT to do. After her overly ambitious “I-can-do-it-all” attitude put her health in danger, Abbie made the smartest move possible. She stripped her business back to bare bones and recreated it to be exactly what she wanted. If the stress of entrepreneurship is taking the joy out of your business, this one’s for you.

Episode Notes

Abbie’s ambition and energy took her far in business, but it also got her in trouble. What I love about her story though is how she never let imposter syndrome stop her — in fact she used it to her advantage. When it came time to switch up her business, Abbie had the right mindset to reinvent herself and let go of what was holding her back. Listen now to get the perspective you need to make your business enjoyable. 

Can’t-Miss Moments From This Episode:

This one is jam-packed full of advice. Don’t miss out - listen now!

Abbie’s Bio:

Abbie Nwaocha is a certified digital marketing expert. She has been a marketing consultant for solopreneurs and small business owners (and politicians) for over five years.

In those wonderful years, she headed all marketing activities for her clients – small business owners and solopreneurs in every field from publishing, real estate, politics, photography, online media, to eCommerce.

It has been such a wonderful career that it was worth taking a 6-year break from college where she studied Telecommunications and IT to pursue her love of marketing.

And now she is a marketing coach for new female entrepreneurs who want to build marketing systems that generates a consistent income of at least $5k per month.

Resources and links mentioned:

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Episode Transcription

Angie Colee (00:00:01):

Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass. A podcast about leaving self-doubt in the dust, punching fear in the face and taking bold action toward your biggest dreams. I'm Angie Colee, and let's get to it. Hey and welcome back to Permission to Kick Ass. And with me today is my new friend Abbie Nwaocha. Oh, we've been practicing so that I could say the name correctly. Hopefully I got it. Cuz names are important. People learn people's names. It's a sign of respect that end of, uh, impromptu rant there anyway. Right. Tell us a little bit about yourself. First of all.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:00:39):

So hi everyone, Abbie Nwaocha, I'm gonna start introducing myself with like a tragic back story first, which is like, I, I I'm this person who is so full of herself that way, I feel like if I do something and I'm like, I got this, I can do this I'm I'm like I can do anything. Let's make a business out this. And so, and so I, I like like Photoshop of tutorials via YouTube. I was like, oh my God, I got this looks perfect. Like, oh my God, my designs are the best walk up to a company with like an empty CV. You know those resumes, just like, and the summary, like, hi I'm accomplished, I'm an ambitious self-starter. That's plus like my name, my email address, my phone number, the course I was taking and my lectures name and phone number, the reference that was my CV.

Angie Colee (00:01:38):


Abbie Nwaocha (00:01:38):

I know. So like obviously nobody would've hired me like that. I attached like my portfolio of some designs I had done and I got a job. So I got a job, a, a food delivery startup here in Kenya with a branch in Uganda as the social media marketing manager. And I was like, wait, this is my first job. Like I'm pretty good at design I'm the ish right now. It's not a graphic design company. Oh boy. It barely lasted a year. It just went down. Yeah. Like, pfft.

Angie Colee (00:02:14):

Oh, wow.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:02:16):

It sucked so bad.

Angie Colee (00:02:17):

So I love, I love that though. Like you got interested in, in Photoshop and you fell in love with the design and then you leverage that into being a social media marketing manager, which I feel like is already something, a lot of people would talk themselves out of. I don't necessarily have the experience to be doing this. I'm not qualified to doing this, but you were like, hell yeah, social me, social media marketing manager. I'm gonna go do it.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:02:40):

Oh yeah. Prior to that, I, I used to be, uh, very into, at the self publishing space specifically with the romance. So I used to be a book blogger, a book reviewer where I used to do book covers for published author. Um, I remember I was, I was a net gallery. So publishers would give you an advanced copy of, um, an author's book. I'll review it. That I'd have like some graphics whenever, uh, an author with like a small, but wanted to do a block tour. I would create like their social media assets.

Angie Colee (00:03:11):


Abbie Nwaocha (00:03:11):

Uh, so, so I was doing a bit of that before, like, Hey, let's do more of this. And so social media made sense, because I had taken like, um, HubSpot has like a, um, has a free social media course. I had taken that leaf pages used to have like some free course of social media. I had taken that I, um, buffer had like a blog and had tutorials on YouTube. HootSuite had some tutorials on YouTube. There were lots of like free courses, tutorials on YouTube. So I had like taken that, like I had downloaded to my, my, my laptop. I would go back, watch it. And that was pretty much my education with social media marketing. And so jumping on social media at that point was like, you done all the tutorials. You've learned as much as you can, but as I put this out there and get some money out it, so for me, just like a no brainer, let's do this.

Angie Colee (00:04:02):

Oh, I love that because I think that's one of the biggest, uh, pieces of head trash that holds people back in starting their business, the education component, I don't know enough to feel comfortable starting. And I love that you took this tactic of, well, I'm gonna learn as muh as possible. Okay. I've learned as much as possible. Let's go do something. Cause I think that's the part of education that we don't really talk enough about. There's only so far that studying and learning can take you at some point, you're really only going to absorb it through action and seeing what happens. Uh, and I really, really love that, you didn't get hung up on the type of education, but rather what skills it imparted, what skills you gained from it. Cause there are so many people that have asked me, like where, where should I go get my degree if I wanna be a copywriter? And I'm like, don't, don't go get, don't do it.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:04:58):

There's actually a reason behind that. I drop out college. So like I wasn't gonna get a degree anyway.

Angie Colee (00:05:04):

Yeah. Well, Hey, and I think that's great because I'm, I have three degrees with, you know, our broken American education system and have been paying off very consistently all of my student loan debt for the last 20 years and still it's not ending.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:05:19):

What the heck?

Angie Colee (00:05:19):

It's never ending. And I think I've still got $70,000 left cuz I like I have.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:05:25):

How much is the school is if it's 70,000 left?

Angie Colee (00:05:28):

Yeah. Oh God one. Well, I saw at one point last year I was looking deeper into my finances cause I was stuck at home during the pandemic. Like I, yeah, I've watched all of the Netflix. I've done all the things. I guess I ought to improve my life and figure out what's going on on. Uh, and one of I had paid off, I think like $25,000 in credit card debt the year prior. So I was like, all right, well, student loans are still a problem. Let me look at this stuff. And when I looked at it, I actually noticed that one of them had, um, over, more than doubled since I took it out, even though I've been paying on it consistently because there have been times that I couldn't afford the full payment, but I'm still making payments under. So like all this time the interest has been being added and compounded and added and compounded. bAnd then I looked at this thing and I was like, wow, this is that I've been paying on this for 20 years. I've probably already paid it back by this point with the amounts of payments. And I, I still owe twice as much. So I did what I think some people, uh, think is not very smart and liquidated my retirement accounts and just paid that off. I'm like, I can't have this thing balloon anymore. I need to shut it down. So that can actually, and then, Hey, good news. I'm alive right now. So I don't need the retirement funds. So I've got time to earn it back and, and save some more. And if I die tomorrow, well then I didn't need the retirement funds anyway. So like everybody's ok. Well, but so many people were telling me you're gonna need that retirement money. You're gonna need that retirement money and I'm, well, I'm not gonna need it if I'm constantly just drowning in debt.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:07:00):

Yeah, it's gonna go anyway.

Angie Colee (00:07:03):

So like I I'll have time to make it back as long as I can actually make a dent in this. And so that was, you know, I, I, and this isn't me crapping all over higher education or anything. Our system is definitely broken in the states. Definitely broken. There are benefits to higher education, but that's not the only kind of education there is. And that's why I love what you did. Especially now with what I would say is almost a democratization of information. I would say when I was younger, you know, 20 years ago, a lot of this information that we can get freely with a couple of, you know, key strokes was still held back by gatekeepers that were in charge of picking who got the knowledge. Now we have it in our hands. It's fantastic. Yay.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:07:50):

You get all that information, all that knowledge for free, just, you just have to look for it and you learn so much, like you don't even need to go to college if it's not, not as you can afford right now, it's free stuff online and begin a portfolio, you're just as good as the person with higher education.

Angie Colee (00:08:08):

And honestly, I think a lot of people that are, are pursuing higher education, cuz I know that this is true of me. So I'm, I'm making a little bit of a statement here, but I think there are a lot of people, at least in the past who have done higher education as a stall tactic, cuz they don't really know what to do, but they know how to do school. So maybe at some point while I'm doing school, I can figure out what I wanna do.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:08:30):

Yeah. Yeah. Like buy yourself a few years, like think of your future.

Angie Colee (00:08:34):

Yeah. That's exactly what I did when I got my master's degree, which actually helps. But you know, would say if I had found copywriting a couple years earlier and gone into that, you know, those two years that I spent on my master's degree, what would've my real world marketing experience look like and that's, I, I got some great education. I actually learned about copywriting while getting my master's degree. So I can't go back time and say, I would

Abbie Nwaocha (00:08:59):

Never like put it down, cause doing the masters, gave you the opportunity to learn about copyright. So I think it did its job in a different way, but it sort of did it job.

Angie Colee (00:09:08):

Absolutely. I took the step I needed to take at the time. The only one that I knew that I could take confidently or the one, the only one that I felt confident about we'll say that. So I took that step and it led me to where I am. So I can't look back on that and say it was the wrong step, you know like.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:09:22):

Yeah, it definitely worked.

Angie Colee (00:09:26):

So tell me more about social media. I mean, you, you took on a bunch of this self education. Yes. Was that after, before you were doing the book marketing, like how did, how did all that work? How did it come together?

Abbie Nwaocha (00:09:39):

Yeah, so the book marketing was like my first ever foray, um, into marketing or graphic design. So, um, when I'm learning something at the tutorial, I have to like first do it, like do it like. I like, woo, this will look good for a book cover. So I have to talk whatever was on a book, that's sort of how I learned. And so while taking like the social media courses, I had to like, let's, let's do all of this. And at that point I was, I had, I didn't know about Canva then, but I did know much of Canva until like 2019. And so I was doing all of this on Photoshop. And so it was like, it was a good way to learn about, um, about social media marketing, keep up to date with what I was learning on Photoshop. So I didn't forgot about it and still keep busy because I was failing badly in school. Like it's a four year course and I took 10 years to do it. So like I had, I had to do something.

Angie Colee (00:10:40):


Abbie Nwaocha (00:10:40):

Yeah. And my mom was like, I'm gonna stop paying for your school fees because you keep failing! Like, OK. She like, you know what? You need to go to school to get a good degree so you can get a job like, so the end results here is a job. So I just skip university then and get a job and so like I had no money, man. I had to think how to survive. So it's like, I feel like if there was nothing chasing you, you'll keep learning. But like I am going to stop sending money. I know my mom. She won't stop sending me money. So like, OK, how this is going out. I give me a month to make, figuring myself out and do something. So getting a job and having a business was like, oh, extra money. I can tell my mom, I don't need you anymore.

Angie Colee (00:11:36):

I, you know, there's something to be, he said for negative motivation, which is that I idea like you have to show someone that they're wrong about you or that you don't really need them or their approval. That got me through a lot of my early days in business, just so many people telling me that I was smoking something or wrong about my ability to create that. And one particularly loud ex telling me that copywriting was a scam. Uh, and I was being snowed by conman. Oh yeah. It was, it was interesting how many people, but in retrospect I can see why they believed the way they did cuz they didn't know anybody that had made it work before. So this thing that I'm trying to do is completely unknown and scary to them. Whereas I know people that have done it, so it's not nearly as scary to me. So I don't know. That's that's just really interesting. And so I had to go since they couldn't see that perspective, I had to go prove them wrong. And ever since then, it's they, they believe me a lot more. Now when I say I'm gonna do something, even if they don't understand it.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:12:40):

In your face.

Angie Colee (00:12:41):

Yes. They're already in my corner cuz I've already proved them wrong once. Uh, and I say this with all love, cuz Mom, you're probably listening. Love you, Mom.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:12:50):

I was right.

Angie Colee (00:12:51):

I was right. The satisfaction.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:12:56):

Right. So I got like, so like confidence, cause you getting a job is one thing at the job to tell you what to do and its my first job. So like super cautious. Cause like, yeah, you cannot realize that I have no degree here, man. Like, oh it's not showing you right now. This is YouTube tutorial. So I felt like at some point they would, they would see through this and be like that. I love it. In like three months you can just get somebody out there. I would do better than I did. So I was super cautious. And so I was like, let's get some stability, some extra money. So like started a business with like a no brainer. And at that point I was doing some flyer graphics for, for some friends. So to me like pattern graphic, um, design business, if there as a consultant slash agency and get some, some extra cash, you just look like, oh let's do this. I, I, I made a mistake because see for my friends, I never charge them. And so if they don't like my design, if you told me that I spent hours on this and you don't like it, I am not paying for it. Hey, I would slap you back to your mother's womb like that. The shit that I've done for you. Give it yourself. You want changes. Give me some change.

Angie Colee (00:14:13):

I already think I know my subject line when I send out the promo email here, I'm slap you back into your mother's womb. But I thought, I think it's really, really interesting how you're you're basically describing imposter syndrome at work. Like any day they're gonna figure out, I don't really know what I'm talking about. So I'm gonna go start a business. I wanna know more about that connection, cuz I, I would say that most people I know and most people I've worked with have said the exact opposite. Like I feel the imposter syndrome, so I'm not going to start a business. So I'm really curious about your take on this.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:14:50):

I, I wanted extra, extra money and keep in mind that I had only been doing this for like a few months seriously. And it's tutorial. It's not like I spend my entire day, um, watching tutorial, like for, for university. Um, I was pretty much in school. I had 7:00 AM classes and sometimes my six, like almost my, my, my day break, but tutorial, each one was like 20 minutes. It was like putting it together. I didn't spend that long doing it, and since I didn't spend that long learning it, I felt like I don't have the qualifications. It's literally a tutorial. There was no expert guiding me, no paper. Some random outside can probably do the same damn thing, the same tutorial. So I felt like you was get, get another job. I would have the same problem. They were like, how did you learn? I'd be like, uh, yeah, there is this speed, um, tutorial on YouTube. I couldn't say that. Like, so I created a situation where nobody would ask me, how did you learn this? And start a business, be a freelancer, you felt like nobody's even gonna question me in this. Let's go this direction.

Angie Colee (00:15:58):


Abbie Nwaocha (00:15:58):

That just, that just what was in my head at that point.

Angie Colee (00:16:00):

No, but I think that makes sense. And that could be a really powerful mindset shift for the people that are listening that feel like they're dealing with imposter syndrome. What if it was, I don't wanna be asked questions that I know the job is gonna ask me about my qualifications. So I'm just gonna go freelance and help people with it where they're just, they're gonna look at my work. I know. Cause I think that was the biggest learning for me too. Especially in recent years, you know, now that I've been doing this for over a decade, there are a lot of things that just come very easily to me. And so I can create a very complex looking marketing strategy in like 15 minutes at a coffee shop on my tablet and send it to someone. And they are under the impression that it took me like weeks of work. And sometimes I almost feel guilty. Like I'm tricking people because it doesn't take me that long. But after having some, some talks with one of my mentors started thinking about why do we get so attached to this idea of if I didn't spend whatever a significant amount of time is on this thing that it somehow worthless.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:17:11):

Yeah. I typically spend all that time learning accumulating skills and experience prior to meetings

Angie Colee (00:17:18):

Yes, that's true. But I mean, I even heard that in your story where you were talking about it with the job, you know, I didn't wanna explain to them that I just watched a YouTube video but what, but what if that was a strength like, well, I, I watched a YouTube video and I taught myself this like, oh shit.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:17:33):

I didn't know that then. I do now. Like I can learn anything, give me 20 minutes. But then I was like it's YouTube Tutorial, anyone can access this stuff. They just find somebody out there and give them a few hours and they'll do better than I was. I was really scared at that point. Like, eh, let's let's have some like security blanket that way. Nobody's gonna question me ever. Yeah. And so that, that was what I would like my rationale at that point. And it did not work

Angie Colee (00:18:07):

Okay. It did not work. So, so, so scratch that for everybody. I was saying, here is a reframe. Tell me what didn't work.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:18:13):

It didn't work for me for several reasons. First of all, see when, when you're doing graphic designers and employee, the company has guidelines. Um, they give you like the colors, the font , they like past history, all the assets, they give to you when you're doing stuff for your friends, because they're your friends and they're not paying you no matter how ugly you do it, it's probably better than what they would've made. And so they technically have absolutely no right to give me a critique. They're doing this for client with like absolutely no asset given to you. And they like somehow whatever's in their head and give it to them. They'll critique this stuff until the end of mankind. And it's always start out very nice. Like, oh, I love it. Like, Ooh, thank you. But, uh, change that font. Um, can you like slide, like 45 degrees. Um, I don't like that red. Make it orange. Oh take it back to red a lighter red, that's try a darker red, I was like, shut up woman. Get to the damn point.

Angie Colee (00:19:17):

That's the funniest thing about working in a creative field so much is just getting comfortable with that idea that most clients have no idea what they want and they, even if they have an idea of what they want, they don't know how to communicate it very well. And so a lot of this is going to be about your ability to read between the lines as a creative person, kind of fill in the gaps based on whatever kind of screening or intake process that you had and be able to iterate the way that they, they tell you to, you know, within reason, obviously it's like change it to red. No, change it back. Change it to black. No, change it back.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:19:54):

I just sort of, my patience went to like negative 100 real quick.

Angie Colee (00:19:59):

Oh yeah.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:20:00):

It's just so stressful.

Angie Colee (00:20:03):

Oh no, I totally get that. I actually had to, I had to develop some processes to circumvent that up front. And a lot of it requires what I think, uh, some, some freelancers would say is a little bit of extra effort, but me putting in that 10 to 15 minutes upfront to set the expectations and, and explain how this works in a way that they get. And then every time we deviate from that, I'm like, okay, so remember we talked about that this is how this works. Here's what I need from you. Here's what's not really gonna be very helpful for me. So, so my process looks something like this when I'm turning over a draft. Well, first of all, the client with the agency that I work with and everything like that, they're with me every step of the way we have a kickoff call where the writing team and I ask all the questions that we need to ask to get this project off. We send over an outline in our proposed ideas. We get buy off then so that we're not just like shooting in the dark, we'll send them, uh, the, the writing team. And I will go back and forth to draft this thing based on the approved outline. And then when it comes time to share the drafts with the client, here's, here's my trick. Number one, I film a walkthrough video of me literally explaining here's the email. Here's what we're thinking. Here's where we have knowledge gaps. Here's the assumption. And so I just walk them through anything that I think they might zero in on and critique me for themselves. I know that this, this event date might not be right. I know that this bonus might not be right. I'm just making some assumptions here. I'm counting on you to correct me on this. Uh, now is the time, you know, we're in round one, this is where all of the significant changes happen. If they need to be, if we need to rewrite this story, it's not working. Let me know if there are things in here that you hate and you never want me to say again, let me know if there are things in here that you love also let me know so that we can do more of that and less of the things that you hate. Um, criticism is part of my job and I need it. So I'm not going to rebel against it. As long as you don't tell me, I'm a shitty person, I can handle anything that you have to say. So, so just let, let me know your honest opinions and that will help us get through this. And so if we rewrite it in round one and get it back to them in round two and they want another rewrite, that's when the wall comes down and I'm like, so we, we talked about this in the previous couple steps. You got your rewrite. We can't do another rewrite at this stage. So what can we do to make sure that this first, this email that we just redrafted for you works and then I'll workshop out with them and ask that, could we try this? Does that make you okay? How does this one feel? And I'll basically get their buy off before I send the team to write. But all of that took exactly what you said, me losing my patience with going, I think some projects or in my early days I went like seven or eight rounds of revisions with people. And that was before Google docs was a thing. So maybe you're familiar with this with a designer like V1 V7. V final.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:22:54):

V final two. Like that over and over and over. And I realized that I did not have patience. And after the third one, I'm like are we done right now? I am done. Like, just like

Angie Colee (00:23:13):

I'm over this, take it, take it and go.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:23:16):

And it happened over and over and over again. When I got pushing my heart for a graphic design, shriveled up died and ran away. Like it just disappeared completely. Like at that point, I'm like, this is not for me because like, I, I didn't have persistence for this. And I realized that doing designs for a friend is a job and doing this as a business owner who has, who, who, um, the customers, you gotta give them what they want because they're paying for it. You know, and even, even as a client gonna you don't like, you feel some kinda way you're like, uh, let's just change something here and there. I'm not, I'm not happy what I'm seeing right now. But I can take that. After two revisions give me something else. I like, I see emails. I would not respond, do it for like 24 hours. Then later I'm like, oh, I apologize for the inconvenience. I was caught up. I was not. I was just pissed off.

Angie Colee (00:24:15):

Well, that's one way to buy yourself time.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:24:19):

I realized I took a day to reply then two days then three days, maybe just giving me a hint right now.

Angie Colee (00:24:31):

I think we hint too much sometimes though, honestly, like I I've been, and this is a skill that I've learned how to practice. I think a lot of people they're in some sort of weird awe about my level of bluntness, but I'm like this, this has gotten me way further than here's where I'm at. Here's why I'm unhappy. What can we do about this? And people know where they stand with me at any given point in time. And they know that I'm not like asking them to read in between the lines. And this is not a judgment of you saying like take a hint here. Cause I like, I, I did a lot of that in my early days in business too. I just, I, wow. I get that though. That feeling of like I'm so far beyond done with this project at this point. And, and to my credit, I like, I've learned how to do the systems now to where that's rarely the case and, and I can spot the people that are gonna drive me that special kind of crazy. I can see them from far away

Abbie Nwaocha (00:25:30):

And be like punch you through the screen. That was my mood.

Angie Colee (00:25:34):

Yeah. I'm sending energy that makes you detour and go look at those people over there. I'm trying to be invisible right now. Don't even come my way.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:25:42):

I can see you. You invisible to me right now. Abbie is not here. I'm entering the void.

Angie Colee (00:25:49):

And you know, that brings up an interesting point that for everybody that's new, or if you're, if you've been in this, uh, rut for a while where you're struggling with clients that are kind of driving you nuts. One thing to look at is if you've got opportunities where you can improve your process, right. Am I filtering people out that aren't a good fit? Uh, what is happening in co? Like where do these break down, you know, noticing where you're starting to get unhappy and can I change something, but also in addition to that, like you can improve your processes and get better communication with clients. And I like to think I'm some sort of an example of that. I don't know if I'm the best example, but, but I, my way is one way of doing it. But it, your, your gut is also valid in this. When you start your business and if you don't like working with people, and if you don't like doing certain kinds of projects, why would you build a business around that? It's your business to decide what you wanna do. Don't make yourself get up and do shit that's making you miserable.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:26:49):

I know it's such like a, like, I was so excited to like land, do designs, like do website mockups, and then lovely. And then all my, like my enthusiasm is crashed and burned and it's it always like that, I guess. I didn't know how I projected out there. Cause I got so many of them like that, that always had like this change and this change, or let's do this. Did I look like I was I up gonna do all those change for like forever? Like I know, I don't know, but it kept happening and it's just, it's like, OK. At that point I realized one, I don't like graphic design enough for this. Like, I don't like it enough of this anymore. I can't do this like for personally. Two I cannot handle these kind of changes and feedback they're giving me like my patience level at that point. Even, even sometimes right now it's not that high. Like we were like, I want this and this and this. Like, oh no, no, no, not, no. Blocking you right now.

Angie Colee (00:27:52):

That's a great point though, that like, okay, now that I've gone into this and I've built a business around this, no, I don't think I love it that much. I don't love it that much to put up with this.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:28:04):

That is like, like for years, like disgust,

Angie Colee (00:28:09):

This happens way more often than you might think guys, where you're I think this, this sounds really interesting. I'm kind of passionate and enthusiastic about it and I see other people doing it. So I figure I can figure this out and make some money for myself. Let's go. And then you go down that path and go, no, no, no.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:28:24):

Back up.

Angie Colee (00:28:26):

Can I just press the undo button?

Abbie Nwaocha (00:28:30):

Yeah. Oh my God. My, my interest did not survive that. And that's a thing just because you're good at something it's a hobby or an interest or a skill doesn't mean you able to turn this into a long term business because when it comes to business, the focus is no longer you, the focus becomes down is based on the client and for your busines to actually grow and for you to get referrals, you don't like, like do all that. You have to make them happy. If their happiness causes frustration, then it's not happiness anymore.

Angie Colee (00:29:05):

That is such an amazing point. And I just wanna reiterate, like if their happiness comes at the expense of you being frustrated all the time, then it's worth it. Don't build your business on the back of you being frustrated all the time. Just don't do it.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:29:21):

Don't do it's not like, oh Jesus not worth it.

Angie Colee (00:29:26):

Right. So at this point you have found this thing that you love. You've educated yourself on it. You've gotten the job. You've started the business. You've realized. Woo. I don't like that business. What happened after that? So you just shut it all down.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:29:40):

Yeah. Like, you know what bye, like Cindy, you've been lovely. No, you have not been. But bye just dropped everything like disappeared. I used to have like a Fiver, an Upwork, a freelancer close it all down. Like no, I'm not doing this anymore.

Angie Colee (00:30:00):

That's that's my one way to do it. For sure.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:30:03):

Right. It just a thought of it. Like has a website ever inspired just this ball of resentment in your chest. You were like, for my mind, like for my mental health and my happiness, I can't see any of this for a while. Just that at some point. Freelancer has like this blue logo, that's color, that shade of blue for a period of time annoyed the crap outta me. It's like, like you still color blue. And you're like, yuck.

Angie Colee (00:30:38):

Oh God. That's great. I can't even look at this color. I don't like it

Abbie Nwaocha (00:30:41):

Like, it's just so bloody frustrating.

Angie Colee (00:30:47):

Oh man. That's well, and I, something similar happened to me too. Well, I actually, it's really funny cuz I was telling this story earlier today, but when I first started my business, some really helpful friends of mine or, or trying to be helpful, created a Yelp profile for me. And this was right when Yelp was taking off. I mean, in the dark ages several years ago, um, they created a, a profile for me thinking that it would help people find me, which no it didn't. Cuz if people go to Yelp looking for copywriters, they're looking for someone like on like on Fiver, the that's that's what they're expecting to find. So I never got any good leads from there, but I did have to deal with trolls from there. So like if I was my blunt self in, in a forum somewhere and I stepped on the wrong toes and somebody was like this up beat bitch needs to be taken down a peg or two. They went straight to my Yelp profile and gave me one star and like shat all over me, and so that was my, my first indication that like, I don't have to do things that I don't like in my business. So you know what? These people started a Yelp profile page for me and I'm gonna shut it down. Cuz I'm tired of dealing with these guys trying to troll me and make me quit. It is not going to happen. Well, and I used to let that stuff bother me a lot too. When I got trolled and I was, it, it still bothers me to, so I'm not gonna lie cuz I, I put off starting this podcast for a while because I was afraid of trolls. But then when it finally happened, I was like, oh no, 14 year old troll. Angie is thrilled with this. Yes, please comment. Oh, don't block me when I run ads for my podcast. Just comment spam so that you bump me up in the algorithm. Thank you. Thank you friends. We're bumping me up in the algorithm. Like that one sign that you see on the internet, like come check out the worst coffee that one chick on trip advisor ever had in her life.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:32:47):

Yeah. But then it's like, that brings like brings people. Like drives business.

Angie Colee (00:32:53):

Oh yes. So that was a long rambling way of saying you don't have to do shit you don't like to do. Don't get caught in that trap of thinking because you started something and because it would sometimes be hard to undo those things. You know, I, I once had to, I had just renewed a lease and then had to break it and move. And all of those things were not convenient or easy to do, but they were doable. So every decision that you make can be unmade, not without grief necessarily, but it can be done. And I, I love that you didn't get attached to this while I started this business. So I'm just gonna like grind my teeth and like,

Abbie Nwaocha (00:33:36):

I don't wanna stress in my life. It's not working out. I'm done.

Angie Colee (00:33:40):

Oh, I love that. I wanna put that on a t-shirt and just sell it to entrepreneurs. If it's not working out, I don't want it in my life.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:33:48):

Yeah. Like is it worth all the stress? It's not. Like I'm just like close my eyes and pretend it didn't happen, Remember how some people have like embarrassing college days. And now like who is that? I don't know her. It never happened. Let's pretend

Angie Colee (00:34:03):

I know. I think that's why so many people are freaked out by like reunion parties and stuff like that. But I'm not even that person that you knew back then anymore. So no, I don't wanna come back and like rekindle all of that shit. Like we're just gonna walk away and pretend that that never happens. So you walked away from the agency and pretended it never happened. Then what happened after? What, what were your next steps? Where did you where'd you go from there?

Abbie Nwaocha (00:34:28):

Yeah. So, but I still wanted, I still wanted, um, some sort of income coming in. I still wanted, um, like money that was not attached to an employer, to an employer. So that, should you realize that this stuff you, you pay me top dollar for, I learnt it for free on YouTube and you're like, Abigail, come, come, come, come that design you did. I just saw tutorial on YouTube. That looks eerily similar to what you just did. Just so I like discovered marketing, marketing, like so fun, like, unlike graphic design where my patience went to like negative 100 whenever I had said, I was like, oh my God, something new. And I still that stuff before, eventually I said to get, just to have like some paper in my life because, so I figured mom, you, you sent it to a foreign country. I have taken Kenya for a Let, just have something that give you like I did this. Thank you. But before that it's also YouTube. Also HubSpot also Google academy, um, Facebook blueprint, all of that before like gets into certification. And so like, I, I, I left the startup. I moved to another company. Now this company is owned by a, by a couple and each of them have several businesses under their name. So they, they have like an investment company owned by two of them that are directors and then companies under them. So for him, he has an architecture company and a construction company. For her, she has a publishing company and I had done some publishing stuff. So that's came in handy and then some work in politics. So like have never done construction. That looks fun. Never done. Um, politics that looks fun. I have done the beat for like, um, um, gay romance lesbian romance, um, working with authors. Now she's doing Christian publishing. Definitely worlds are past, but let's see. What's fun is in here. So I came in, still had a very and I told them point blank. I have not graduated from university, but here is my portfolio. For some reason it looks attractive enough. Like you guys are you all blind, but anyway, thank you very much.

Angie Colee (00:36:53):

Well, I'm glad that you brought that up. Cause I think that there's a certain amount to be said for just owning the perceived flaws. If you know that some people are probably gonna call attention to the fact that you don't have a university degree, you could just say not even gonna hide it. I don't have a university degree. What I do have is some experience. Look at this.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:37:12):

Yeah. My portfolio, like I don't have, I don't have a degree that's but look at my look at portfolio. I've done. Look at my design, got a social media post. I had done the graphics and all that's the book covers I had done. Cause she was, was aim to publishing. Of course the book I give her were like on the PG side of things. Nothing, no boobs hanging out, no abs anywhere in sight this is very Christian friendly.

Angie Colee (00:37:47):

Oh my, my lady that does the writing for me. Shout out to Claire. She's fantastic. Uh, we've been joking about how I need to pull more out of context quotes from these podcasts because we have so many interesting side conversations. No abs anywhere in sight needs to be.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:38:03):

Like nine out of every 10 gay romance book covers some guys doing this with the shirt like cowboy hat.

Angie Colee (00:38:19):

It's either the cowboy hat or the Fabio hair.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:38:22):

Yeah. Uh, Or he's shirtless or he has some muscle or like some weird motorcycles, some in the background.

Angie Colee (00:38:28):

Oh yeah. Oh gosh.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:38:30):

Like, like this is a Christian company Abagail. Let's go through our portfolio. What looks very clean in here? Like the cleanest stuff in here. That one that go my portfolio.

Angie Colee (00:38:45):

That was another smart thing to do though. Because as somebody that has hired writers, I can't tell you how many people have put that kind. They haven't put that kind of thought into their portfolio and it shows, so it's show me something that's even remotely relevant to what you think you can do for me, please. Like, yeah. I'm I'm asking you to write emails and if you send me a book, that's great. I know you can write books, but can you write emails? I would like to actually know that. So you send them book covers and then you take that step of acknowledging this. Some of these are not gonna fit within their brand. So let's do

Abbie Nwaocha (00:39:18):

That is not gonna work out here. Take that out. I give it to them. They loved it. So I did that for two years as, as the head of marketing for all the four companies.

Angie Colee (00:39:33):


Abbie Nwaocha (00:39:34):

Um, there, so I, the social company I was head of marketing. For the architecture I was for the publishing. I was actually, uh, 2019, 2020, I held over 20, um, authors in Kenya and east Africa countries published your two first books. So like, oh!

Angie Colee (00:39:52):

That's awesome. Wow.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:39:56):

Yeah, it was so awesome. Even the 2017 election, one of the candidates under us, not only got nominated, but he's currently on a sitting members of county assembly. So like we actually got him in a sitting, like we pretty good at this. Let's make a business out of this!

Angie Colee (00:40:20):

I see this pattern.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:40:20):

Like my default, like yeah, I know like whenever, better, like, wait, wait, there's more money to be had here. Make a business out of it

Angie Colee (00:40:30):

That's the other catch phrase that I'm sensing from this episode. Like, I'm pretty good at this. Let's make a business out of it.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:40:36):

I know. Oh my God. And so at that point, I, I was, I was, uh, I was juggling this, um, Australian client. I got to photograph in, um, in Melbourne and at time zones were really stressful. Having, working for like the four companies, plus somebody in Australia, like an eight hour time different and still thinking I was so ridiculously ambitious, but I'm like, I'm Abbagial. I can do it all. I cannot do it. Lemme tell you right now.

Angie Colee (00:41:05):

Yes. You listening to this. You also, you know, I'm gonna stomp on your dreams and crush your soul a little bit here, but you also cannot do it all. Just letting you know. You're welcome to try and prove me wrong. If you need that negative motivation.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:41:18):

Do it and, and if you prove her wrong, you'll know what you like, what you're good at and what definitely not good at. And that's also fun. Like I wouldn't touch design anymore because Cindy has ruined it for me. I had that experience to fall back on. I can still do design, but I know that if retirement as a designer, like a full on designer, I am out. I wouldn't be able to handle that. So do it. If you're thinking, I am like when I was a kid, my mom will always tell me, um, you can do anything you want to do. Like, you know, through, through the best school, like you can do anything you put your mind to do. And so greater. I always thought I can do anything. I want, I put my mind to it. I can do it. Which is why learning things was like, came, came so easily, which is why I had four clients and looking for somebody in Australia, start a business. Like I am Abbigail. I am superhuman. When God made me, he was like take it all, Abbigail, take all the talent. So like yeah I can do it all! I like started a marketing consultant agency. I barely slept number one. Cause it was bloody stressful. I remember at 2:00 AM, I'll be up trying to get some stuff done for the clients in Australia. Then on a Monday at eight 30, I had a meeting for the company since they save, I had a meeting for the construction company, the publishing, the authors were like, oh, how, how, how this, how are we gonna sell this book? Like, OK. It's like calm down. Drop it. I'll get back to each. There was always something into my attention, but I was not gonna give up, I can do it all. Like the week let's do this. So I went all in and I crashed number one, number two, because I was everywhere. And cause I, I was so full of myself and cause I thought like marketing is my thing. Like my eyes closed, I can do it all. I didn't have a strategy for my client. So all of them, I always had a strategy for them. We always had weekly meetings to sign off on what's happening. So this was gonna happen this week. This is our action plan. That the results we expect, this was gonna be going out every single day for myself. I don't do any of that. I didn't know who my target audience was like LinkedIn, thank you. Leads consistently. But literally means every single person, like there was no criteria filter been were first, second or third connection on LinkedIn. That was all. So just I had no strategy. I had, I had no idea who, who my client was. I put any of this structure that I did for my clients and it's just, it was going nowhere me. Um, the company was called The Growth Metric was ask me, well, that's the question? Do I just tell you do marketing? What kinda marketing? I would say enter marketing. Um, who do you work with? Like, well, anybody who is marketing, that was pretty much it. There was like no structure. Absolutely nothing. And soon you struggle. Sometimes it gets great clients. Sometimes it gets not so great clients, sometimes you have guys. Cause they think you're LinkedIn connection and kinda like a few times they think you're gonna do this stuff for free in exchange for like a nice LinkedIn post. Like FU, that doesn't pay my bills.

Angie Colee (00:44:47):

Publicity don't pay the bills. Thank you.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:44:50):

Like, like, oh you're so nice. I'm like, yeah, I'm nice on LinkedIn, but you, you weren't giving me anything to do on LinkedIn in the first place. If it involves actual work like time is money. Right? So it was so stressful. It is all about a place. One kind was like subscription, like let into an eCommerce that you sell, like, um, principals and tutorials and worksheets like, oh no, let's do this. I was oscillating around like the subscription eCommerce. Um, let's do like a bundle or something. I was like literal everywhere just going nowhere. I had lines for, for the investment company, somebody in Australian, like, hi Abbie, how is that design going? It's like, it was so bloody stressful. At some point I stopped eating. And I, I like I eating disorder for a while and it was fine. But then I realized that it's 7pm, did I have breakfast? Like the constant and my migraines get bad enough. My senses gets heightened. So, um, lights get too bright. Smells are too sharp. Noises are so loud. I didn't like stay in the dark and just like cover myself. I was in the middle of the street once and I was migraine hit me. I was crossing and then like cars honking, I had to go like a colleague event. They had the same bus, like close my eyes. I'm like, just take me to the stage because right now I can't open my eyes. It's so bright. It's loud. Like some of like, there's like a 27 chips, um, fries at the side and I can smell the grease, making me nauseous. Like there's like so many things senses I cannot handle. I need to like shut down. So health wise.

Angie Colee (00:46:38):

Yeah. I had similar migraines back in, in grad school. It was, and, and I kept a journal for my doctors and it was the same kind of triggers. It was uh, lack of sleep. It was poor nutrition and it was high stress levels that would bring on. And it was exactly that kind of migraine when it hit me. I just needed to be in a bubble with nothing else happening.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:46:56):

Yeah. Like I, I would close the, I would put on like my thick cushions turn the light to so it's completely dark and I it'd have to be in a place where there was no sound coming in. There was no light, just complete darkness on every side. And I, that I stay that way for hours. Sometimes I'm lucky I look up the next day, it's gone unfortunate. There's still like some side effects. So have a call right now and having bad migraines. I can't go out. And luckily they knew, they knew I had migraines regularly. Like at least twice a month, it gets those migraines. So I, I tell them like, okay, I'm not hit me right now. I can't step outside because there's so many things out there. If so many honks right now I might drop, I handle this. My senses are loading, so I I'll get this stuff done later. But right now I need like isolation. And this literally almost killed me the stress levels and the migraines and everything.

Angie Colee (00:47:54):

I know. How long did that go on?

Abbie Nwaocha (00:47:57):

I did it for like two years. Like, I did not want to give up. I thought that, you know, for the graphic only one year, I thought persistence would be key. The only persistency persistent. And so literally killing me. You know what? It'll get easier. It'll get better. The first years are always the hardest. Just persevere then my migraines kept getting worse and worse. And I was throwing up. Times in which my sight got so bad. I I'm like, wait, what happened? You know how you black out? People are talking, but then it's like, you blink and it's been 30 minutes. And you're like, what what's happening right now?

Angie Colee (00:48:37):

I used to do that with my old day job and driving home, like I'd blink and I'd be turning onto my street. And I'm like, wow. I was driving 70 miles an hour. Completely checked out. Wow. How scary is that?

Abbie Nwaocha (00:48:50):

I know it's not like, okay. After two years I was like, you know what? I, I've given three years of my best efforts, two years of stress and migraines and is associating. Maybe it's not, maybe this is not, it's just not meant to be. Maybe later in the future after I, I have less stuff on my plates and I make a strategy. I will come back to this, but right now I can't go on like this. It's literally killing me. Like, let's, let's just drop this.

Angie Colee (00:49:21):

Yeah. I'm so glad you had that realization. Like I do see so many other people struggling with that same thing, that, those, the first couple years are the hardest, and you can gotta struggle with it.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:49:33):

Whoever said that advice, shut up. I know you're right. But in some cases, that's the worst advice to tell somebody.

Angie Colee (00:49:38):

I know, like, don't work yourself into the ground over this. And what if it could be easier? What if you're just sticking with the hard path, because that's what you've been told is the way forward, but maybe that's not the way forward for you. And there actually is an easier way that will not kill you.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:49:53):

Like, oh my God, like that was such a stressful period. Like I love marketing. I still love marketing. I still do that. I mean, next year, an election year. And I've been pretty active helping, um, some political, um, political parties. I think five of them have come together a coalition and I'm the head of marketing for that. We had a press conference last week, so I'm still active in that. But I, and I love marketing a lot, but I don't like marketing to the point where I am willing to like blink. And I'm like, wait, it's 7:00 PM. I've not drunk water the entire day. I have not eaten. I can't recall what I have done this entire day. I know I was doing something. I was getting my work done, but I have no collection of it. I like, when did I write that email? When did that happen? That was it for two years.

Angie Colee (00:50:51):

Wow. Wow. That's crazy. So yeah, you, you hit that point where you decided it's not worth it. This, this da I'm going, if I keep going, I'm going to die from this kind of stress.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:51:02):

Yeah. It's stressful. It's like anybody that has migraines and you know, stressful place. Like if it gets the bad, that senses are over drained, yo, that's a hint. Stop.

Angie Colee (00:51:14):

Yes. Stop.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:51:15):

Like, stop. It's not worth it anymore.

Angie Colee (00:51:19):

I heard it recently. And I, I love this explanation. Like pain is inevitable. Everybody has pain, but you don't have to suffer. Suffer is a choice. And I think that, that explains the difference between people who can go through something like very horrific and traumatic and come out the other side and still be fairly well adjusted and like mentally strong versus people that have, have taken that on and really just suffered and not found a way to stop the suffering. So it just keep, like, they keep going through that cycle and reliving it over and over again and stressing themselves out. So like, sometimes a lot of the times, honestly, I believe that that suffering is a choice and we feel like we don't have that choice. So we get stuck in that cycle of suffering. But you, you hit that wall decided I'm not gonna suffer anymore. What happened? Did you close down that agency? Like you closed down the first one.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:52:13):

Yeah. So like, I pause this. I, I still believe that deep down I'm gonna go back to it. Cause it's, it's it's, you know how it like, so open, I had done membership, eCommerce, um, bundle, like I did, I did come back this, like cross some things out. So I still, that domain year after year, the hosting year after year gonna come back to, but that's right now, right now I'm on empire and that's, it's like, okay, I have through all the highs and lows and like have low, low journey is like, I know what nots to do if nothng else I can definitely tell you what not to do when I've been there. And so after I'm like, I still wanna start a business. I still love marketing but not like this.

Angie Colee (00:53:03):


Abbie Nwaocha (00:53:03):

So in, in 2020 when the pandemic happened, well, everyone was like, oh, pandemic, I was like yay, pandemic. Anyone who was affected. I'm so sorry, but like, I'm so introverted. I'm a home body who does not like going out. My boss has to beg me to leave the apartment. I was like, I think it'll go out.

Angie Colee (00:53:22):

I know a lot of people were super happy that they've already got their comfy blanket over their head.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:53:27):

I know, that's weird. I remember imagine, but the pandemic seriously. And then the, the president give a mandate that work from home and not more than five people in the office space. And so only those who absolutely like who, who could not work from home state. I was like, I can work from home years. Yeah. And so from the second week of March to the second week of April, I think I only went out like five times and each time was to buy food stuff. And even then I would order to the website, ill go there, pick, pick it up and come back. I would pay for the delivery but it was two minutes away. And the delivery fee was ridiculous. Like bring it lower that did not like fine FU I could pick it up myself. That's all I went out for, my boss was like, have you gone out today, no. And have seen the sun today. Like I can open the window and see the sun it's like, get outta the office. Like, no, like, you know what, we're gonna have a group lunch. Like, just so we like, see each other zoom there'll be appropriate space. We're gonna have like good meet, lunch is on you. Like I'll be out. I only went out when he promised me lunch. But, but 2020 was a good year because I'm like, after all the highs and low and the drugs started business, I said, I figured out, okay, what do I really like? Marketing. Out of all this wonderful, not so wonderful experience. Um, without having structure. And because remember all this stuff that there is, there is never any mentor or sort of, of guidelines. Like one they're learning the, see the next letter website design, social media, just like all about. Absolutely no structure. I was reading as I go. And I was like, I don't want anybody to like, go all, I don't want anybody, like, feel like you have to like, hold onto a business that's giving you stress for two years. Or to have a hobby that you like, but maybe lemme do a business because it's not gonna work out. So like, OK, what are my experiences? What am I good at? What do I absolutely want to do. I worked with different types of client. What kinda do I like working with the, what do I want to, I like put all of this down and like, okay. What I, I like, I like marketing. I want to work online because I do not like going without anywhere physically. Like if I could, I could in the sun for entire year, give me minutes. Like, so it has to be online. It has to be, it has to be like a marketing related. I want to work with, with women. And I want to work with people who are selling like the first two, three years of business. You're so new to which is still like experimenting things. You're still like, oh my God, why do do I drop this? Why not? That's what I want to do. And once I have all of that down and then like that space for it and on my desk, like where I look at things like, okay, so I have publishing, um, it's it's the pandemic. So there's not much election stuff going on. So I have free time here. I can lucky I can schedule most of this after working here for like four years, plus I pretty much have my cycle growing out. So it doesn't take that much long. I could, I could knock out that entire month days. I can like joing my meetings. Cause zoom. I have this period of work of, but Wednesday, Thursday, Fridays empty. I had like minute a pass. Cause I was like, okay, this is what I wanna do. This is fun. Now. I done that and that was fun.

Angie Colee (00:57:12):

Yeah. And that you can actually look at your experience and circle the things that were the most fun or the most interesting for you and find a way to make that your business. I think that's brilliant. Especially since you mentioned that you, you didn't have a mentor or someone show or a coach or somebody that was showing you, you, you took it upon yourself to take an honest look and reflect back on your experience and figure out this works. This didn't this, oh, this made me miserable over here. None of that. Yeah, like cross things off the list. It's totally okay to cross things off the list. Like there's 8 billion people on the face of the planet and there are more jobs than you could possibly ever list. I could start listing all the jobs out there on this show and re and just be recording for like months straight. And I would never get through them all. So you can create the job that you want based on everything that you discovered you didn't want when things fell apart. I, yes, love that. I love that. I love that.

Abbie Nwaocha (00:58:14):

If you have a mentor that process is gonna happen a lot faster.

Angie Colee (00:58:22):

I firmly believe that we all learn at our own pace and our timeline is our own. And we are where we are until we learn the thing that we needed to learn. And then we will move on and not before. So I would say, you know, parting thoughts for somebody that feels stuck and like they're screwing up this business thing. What would you tell them to do to get themselves unstuck?

Abbie Nwaocha (00:58:45):

Here's the thing the business is, is for you. So you say you're stuck. What exactly about it is making you stuck? Like what, like tell and align what's making you stuck. Is it that you don't like doing your stuff that why you're stuck? Is it that the hours, the hours are killing you. Is that why you're stuck is that your passion for this stuff has, has died? Not as exciting as it used to be that while you're stuck, it's just that you've been at this for a long time and just quitting right now feels like all we have to go down, down the drain. Is that why you feel stuck first figure out what exactly this, um, stuck means. And then whatever it is, you can always just ignore them and start something else. And if you don't wanna abandon this completely, you can always pause and months, years down the line, you go back to it. You wanna be alive to enjoy this business.

Angie Colee (00:59:35):


Abbie Nwaocha (00:59:36):

And if you are getting like ridiculous migraines and stress, if you are frustrated, if you're like, Ugh, this again, then it's not working out clearly. So just ditch it. I just, it, I know it sounds easy to say, but honestly, do you like it? No. Then ditch it.

Angie Colee (00:59:53):


Abbie Nwaocha (00:59:54):

Like think about it. If you're a relationship with this person that you don't, that's stressing you out, that's frustrating you all the passion has dried up say. Would you still the stay? No, you'd be like, uh, maybe take a break. It's not working now. Maybe you get better off a part. Or maybe this breakup. Same thing applies here. That business needs be your exe. To take a break or breakup with it. There's you have so much ahead of you. Like, I know it sound like it'll be a thing to say, but like, you have so much ahead of you. That the opportunities are really are literally very fast. As you open that own business, you can open 10 more as you wanted to. Nobody says you gonna have only one. You can open as many, as many as you want. So don't get to attach to that. That you like, no, it's me like, no, no, no, no. This like I abusive relationship right now. Separate yourself from it and go somewhere else.

Angie Colee (01:00:48):

I love that.

Abbie Nwaocha (01:00:50):

That's the best thing.

Angie Colee (01:00:52):

Oh yeah. Like the very definition of when one door closes another one opens. So don't like bang on the closed door so long that you miss the one that opened up just next door. Yeah. I love this conversation so much. I could go all day with you for right now. I'm gonna ask you to tell us where to find you on the internet, where to learn more about you. Because I have a feeling, lots of people are gonna work with you after this.

Abbie Nwaocha (01:01:13):


Angie Colee (01:01:22):

Energy and personality are definitely important. So where can we find you online?

Abbie Nwaocha (01:01:27):

Yeah, so the best to find me online, actually my website. I would've said Instagram, but I only Instagram stalk to stop write. So I'm not there for anything unless you like I don't anymore. So you go to my website as for her like forms, literally everywhere, contact forms, collaboration, forms, all of that.

Angie Colee (01:01:53):


Abbie Nwaocha (01:01:53):

Any form, I'll get an email and then we can start the conversation there. I literally prefer email conversations over any other, because like, if it, they get so stressed out, like you just be like, okay, let's take a few hours. I'll come back to this later. Compare social media where you sort of have to respond quickly or it looks kinda weird. So email is more like my pace. It's like prefer email.

Angie Colee (01:02:16):

See, structuring your business in a way that makes you comfortable and feel happy. I love that I'm here for it. So thank you so much for being on the show today. I love everything about your energy and what we talked about we're gonna have to do this again.

Abbie Nwaocha (01:02:38):

No. Don't go yet. I have a gift.

Angie Colee (01:02:38):

You have a gift?

Abbie Nwaocha (01:02:38):

Because I'm a big fan of like, um, self learning and because I know there are lots of free stuff outed, like YouTube and cool. Um, I have like, uh, a PDF or free resource. That's mine.

Angie Colee (01:02:50):


Abbie Nwaocha (01:02:51):

All the people have made that I, that have helped me. I have personally used along my journey. So it's like, it's, you know, PDF. Like 50 plus three resources.

Angie Colee (01:03:01):


Abbie Nwaocha (01:03:01):

Tutorials courses, articles that actually makes sense. So if you like me and you wanna learn on yourself or at least just pick something up by yourself, I would really recommend that. I give you the link to it or I say it out.

Angie Colee (01:03:15):

Um, I can make sure that we have that in the show notes, but if you wanna say it out loud, I'll make sure that it's in that they have a clickable link in the show notes too.

Abbie Nwaocha (01:03:22):

OK. So it's

Angie Colee (01:03:28):

Awesome. Awesome. I will make sure that they have that link. So thank you again so much for all of your energy, for all your enthusiasm, for sharing so openly. And honestly, I appreciate you so much and I'll talk to you soon.

Speaker 3 (01:03:46):


Angie Colee (01:03:51):

So that is it. Another awesome episode of Permission to Kick Ass on the books. If you want to know more about the show or if you want to know more about me, Angie Colee and the mission I'm on to help entrepreneurs punch fear in the face and do big bold things, then head on over to That is all one word together, Make sure to sign up for my email list so that you know whenever there's a hot, fresh and ready podcast episode out for you. And also on Mondays, I like to send out a little newsletter called Kick Monday's Ass. I'm sure you're totally, totally surprised by that. So thank you for being here with me today. I'm Angie Colee. Make sure that you share this with a friend that needs to hear this message today. Like it, share it. Comment wherever you're listening to this today and let's go kick some ass.